has anybody heard what the techical problems were with the Z-I?

[roger_michel]

hi -- the website talks about QC issues. has anyone heard through

the grapevine what the concerns were that pushed back the release

date? is the camera still a certainty? and, of course, how long

must we wait for the digi-Z-I?

[jerry_lehrer]

Roger-- How long does it take for vapour to condense and then solidify? I wouldn't expect it for Christmas.

 

Jerry

[paul t]

Perhaps the example that a p.net reader handled at a camera show and

mentioned here a day or two ago was a hallucination, then?

[lutz]

Hmm, it might as well have been the re-incarnation of the one I handled exactly one year ago, at the 'Kina. ;-)

[socke]

As I understand the text on the ZeissIkon website they found problems while testing the prototypes which they solved before normal production started.

IMHO this is a good thing, you can't issue service packs for a camera and blame problems on the user who didn't download the hotfixes and service packs :-)

[jerry_lehrer]

You handled what is called a mock-up. A shell that goes "click". Lots

of people have been gulled by mockups. Remember the Tucker automobile?

[bill_marshall1]

Roger, I have no idea what the QC isues were, but the camera is still a certainty. Zeiss has never said that there would be a digi-ZI . . . just that their lenses would were designed to work with one if the technology ever evolved to that. In fact, they have otherwise said exactly the opposite, i.e. that for now film is the best medium for wide angle photography. So, for now, it is just guesswork as to whether there is a digi-ZI in the near or distant future.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[paul t]

"You handled what is called a mock-up. A shell that goes "click". Lots of

people have been gulled by mockups. Remember the Tucker automobile?"

<p>Why the weird obsession? Your comparison makes simply no sense

whatsoever. Zeiss are a huge company, with a much bigger turnover than

Leica, and a diverse stream of incomes. It would make more sense to accuse

them of using their financial muscle to steal Leica's small niche, or to criticise

them for appropriating and not even properly acknowledging Leica's M

mount. But to accuse them of producing a fantasy camera? It makes you

sound like Michael Brown. But unfortunately, that hurricane is coming,

brother. <p>

Incidentally, Zeiss's word on the Digital ZM is simply that "it may be a future

possibility". One would think that if they are not working on prototypes already

then they're out of their tiny minds - it would be nonsensical to launch a

camera into a niche that is getting inexorably smaller.

[jerry_lehrer]

Paul T--- Ever hear of the expression "stalling" or the musical term

"vamp until ready"?

 

I have been dealing with major aerospace companies, that would make

your treasured Zeiss-Cosina seem like a fart in a hurricane. I know

what stalling is like. They made promises that they cannot keep. Schedules that cannot be met.

[rich815]

Jerry, why are you so obsessed with dissin' the ZI? It's getting ludicrous. You have nothing new to add and make the same vapor/Tucker comments so why are you jumping in every time someone even mentions this camera in a thread? Did Zeiss do something bad to you when you were a little boy? Your vapor comments are vapid. ;-)

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Why do so many Leica owners seem to want the ZI to fail? Are you angry about Leica's financial problems? Are you in bad moods because you can't scrape up the cash for the Leice Hermes edition?

 

You'd think folks would be happy to have more choices in the "M" mount. Particularly if Leica goes under. I guess I just don't understand the folks in this forum.

 

Robert

[novaron]

Zeiss is simply doing what Leica did for the digital back, not releasing until certyain quality

issues are sesolved.. By the way, Cosina's website indicates and October 29 release date in

Japan and someone else has posted on the Cosina-Voigtlander group that its is going to be

available in Germany on October 15.

[james_.1]

For a slide film shooter, the Zeiss Ikon body will be optimal. It will also be a far less

expensive alternative to the M7. Also, the eye relief seems excellent from reports, esp. for

someone wearing specs and using lenses like 28/50/90mm. It's not a body like the MP,

which can be rebuilt forever, but that's OK.

[stuart_richardson]

I have heard (but have no real information) that Zeiss received the first models from Cosina

and was not happy with the QC. The have been improving them in Germany and trying to sort

out the QC issues. I heard that from a major dealer who sells the lenses and will be selling

the bodies. I don't get the vaporware thing though...especially since the lenses have already

been released. Why go to the trouble to make the lenses and say you are going to make the

camera but not do so? That seems pretty retarded to me. Obviously they are making the

body, but it just isn't ready yet. Pushing back the release date doesn't mean the thing is still

only an idea.

[harvey_edelstein1]

Maybe Zeiss should buy the manufacturing equipment needed for making cameras from Kyocera. After all Zeiss must have been happy with the quality of the RTS III and the G2 and since Kyocera is getting out of the business altogether Zeiss can set up its own equipment manufacturing QC. Another thought would be to get Konica Minolta to make the Zeiss cameras. Konica's RF was well made, the lenses were well made (I have the 50mm f2.0} and Konica has learned a lot about M lens compatibily from first hand experience. Konica could help Zeiss develope digital cameras more quickly than Zeiss could itself and If Zeiss cross license its lenses for use on Konica Minolta cameras it could help them attract some pro and prosumera camera buyers.

 

I am not sure Cosina is up to making high end RF with a finish and robust mechanics that is worth the premium pricing Zeiss is asking for its RF.

[__jon__]

>Jerry Lehrer , sep 27, 2005; 08:07 p.m.

 

>fart in a hurricane. I know what

 

You certainly know about expelling large quantities of fetid gas.

[roy_lahay]

What is the latest release date for this Ikon?

[icuneko]

<the concerns that pushed back the release date?>

 

They spelled Ikon as Icon. When they asked the person responsible for this, he said, "Ican fix it." He didn't yet.

 

<is the camera still a certainty?>

 

We all know only the big D and taxes are certainties. And of course,

the digi vs film war.

 

<how long must we wait for the digi-Z-I?>

 

Uh...while you wait, go out and get a copy of "Waiting for Godot."

Read it. Then you'll know the answer to this question.

 

Actually, they've put the lenses out before the body. Not exazeissly a case of the horse before the cart. Or is that before the fart?

[nathaniel_pearson]

Stalling is one thing, and certainly seems to have happened here. But the 'vapo(u)rware'

refrain asserts more than that, and makes me wonder: how much are its exponents willing to

bet that the new Ikon does -not- ship to consumers in country X within Y months? Are they

willing to bet, say, the cost of a 50mm Planar-ZM that Zeiss is the same sort of fly-by-nite

company as Silicon Film? Let's see the vaporwary among us put their $ where their keyboard

is.

[johan_greenhorn]

The *real* problem of the delay does not need to be QC issue. It is just better to tell customers that the delay is related to QC, so they get less angry, hoping to get better camera in the end. Real reason can well be something else. It may be just... marketing. Just a guess.

[andrew_hall1]

>I am not sure Cosina is up to making high end RF with a finish and robust mechanics that is worth the premium pricing Zeiss is asking for its RF.<P>

 

But <i>I</i> am sure that there were people (one of whom must have been Jerry) who said the same thing about Yashica some 30 years ago when Zeiss announced a similar collaboration:<P>

 

"What?? A Japanese Contax?! To be made by someone like Yashica??? You got to be kidding!! What a scam!!"

[james_cooke]

"You handled what is called a mock-up. A shell that goes "click". Lots of people have been gulled by mockups. Remember the Tucker automobile?"

 

Yeah Jerry whats with the constant vapourware comments? So all those lenses are for a camera they dont intend to make? Get real. Your comming across as one of the Leica diehards that get ridiculed on the Canon and Nikon forums.

[icuneko]

<how long must we wait for the digi-Z-I?>

 

They're just trying to teach the outside world the Japanese/Korean

art of "gaman suru/sugo haseo"--patient endurance. Get with the game plan folks.

[roger_michel]

wow -- didn't mean to excite so much contro.

 

anyway, i will be curious to see the camera. if it has less lag than the hexar RF and no RF incompats, i might be tempted. then again i could give the money away for antibiotics in africa. i am starting to worry about my priorities. must spend less time in church, more in darkroom.

 

thanks again.

 

still hoggin' the world's resources,

 

roger

[scott_mcloughlin]

Ah, what the hell. CV is tooling up for a brand new camera body. They also were busy cranking out the ZI lenses, which by all reports I've read, seem pretty damn good at great prices for new M-mount lenses. I imagine that CV has other ongoing business/manufacturing commitments as well to add to the mix.

 

So there's a delay during a period where ZI/CV is cranking out alot of new product. So what? I have full faith they'll get it right. There are plenty of happy Bessa R/R2/R2a/R3a users. With the early R, CV had some issues with vertical RF alignment (I had mine aligned), a QC issue - but damn, they make a brilliantly bright VF. And most of their lenses are damned good as well.

 

Here in the 21st century, it's just not rocket science to make a decent RF camera. They're more than likely to get it right. I wouldn't worry.

 

Scott