D70 experience and limitations

[csuzor]

A couple of months and a few thousand pictures with my D70, I am

beginning to feel some limitations, and wondering if these are

overcome with other models or options/methods:

 

1. The grip is a little short, it's designed for 3 fingers, leaving

the index and thumb busy with controls, but with the SB800 and the 18-

70 (or larger) this can be a strain single-handed. It really needs a

larger grip (and I only have small hands), without mentioning a

vertical grip.

2. The viewfinder is small, I need to squint into it to view the

whole frame.

3. Manual focus is almost impossible, but sometimes necessary (like

shooting animals through their cage fences)

4. Auto focus often hunts and fails if there is little contrast in

the focus box

5. Exposure is tricky, can't figure out reliable method, I use both

center-weighted and spot, but often have to use exposure compensation

to get the right exposure. I spend quite some time adjusting the NEF

for exposure.

6. Flash exposure does not allow spot metering (and it should follow

the focus point, not just stay at center, which forces me to use

Flash Exposure Lock)

 

I'll stop there, I like the camera, but coming from Canon film SLR, I

am still learning and coping with the changes. For example, eye-

driven focus points is really nice to use with Canon!

 

Perhaps I need to spend 4x more to get the handling and features I

like, but that is not do-able today.

 

Thanks

Christophe

[ShunCheung]

A lot of the problems you mentioned do not exist in the more expensive DSLRs. How much money do you want to spend?

 

However, even the expensive DSLRs still require a good photographer behind them to generate excellent images. So we need to continue improving our skills.

 

P.S. Canon has effectively abandoned their effort on Eye-Control Focusing. As far as I know, none of their SLRs introduced in this century has that feature any more.

[beau 1664876222]

In my humble opinion, all the "consumer" DSLRs made now are basically toys. Something like a F100 seems like a huge bargain if what you require is a really well-built and well-designed camera.

 

The D70 is particularly annoying, in any event. Even though I own a bunch of Nikon lenses, I bought the Pentax *ist as the "fam cam" -- it's just better thought-out and nicer to use than the other "consumer" DSLRs, especially the viewfinder. And tons of great older lenses are available cheap.

[andrew robertson]

Elan 7NE has it. It's just a year old.

[bwcombs]

Other than that Mrs. Kennedy, how was the parade?

[marty_elan]

"In my humble opinion, all the "consumer" DSLRs made now are basically toys."

 

I don't know why you would say that??? Many pros use "consumer" DSLRs as their backup camera. No pro I know would depend on a toy for that. Too much at stake. I think it would be in your best interest not to make a generalized statement. It will only leave people with the impression that you are ignorant. Simply put, state your argument and then back them with facts.

[beau 1664876222]

"I think it would be in your best interest not to make a generalized statement. It will only leave people with the impression that you are ignorant. Simply put, state your argument and then back them with facts."

 

Pay attention, Mr. Rhetoritician, I said it was my opinion.

[tholte]

Pretty snobbish to call the D70 a "toy" but everyone has a right to express themselves. I personally really like my "toy" and don't think I really need a D2X for five times the price or the top of the line Canon for eight times the price.

[marty_elan]

What, your opinion is immune to criticisms? If you don't want to be contradicted, keep you opinions to yourself. Otherwise get a clue this is a forum for open discussion and not closed mindedness.

[matt_t__brooklyn_]

I have to admit that I disagree with a number of the complaints listed above.

 

1. I think the handgrip is a perfect size. It fits my moderate sized hands wonderfully. If you want to feel a small grip, check out the Rebel XT...I can fit 4 fingers on the D70 grip with room to spare.

 

2. I can't disagree with the viewfinder being small, but I think it is plenty sufficient for framing shots and focusing in auto focus. I've never had the luxury of using a very expensive camera with a great viewfinder, so it works for me.

 

3. While manual focus can be difficult given the small viewfinder, in bright light I can manual focus all right. And the beauty of digital is, you can review the shot instantly, and retake if need be. (Of course when you are talking about wildlife photography, the moment may be gone.)

 

4. Auto-focus can be finicky in low contrast or low light areas. But you just work around it. I will focus on a similarly distanced spot that is brighter and then just recompose. Really not a problem.

 

5. I've read about the exposure system favoring underexposing to save from blowing highlights. That's fine with me, I'd rather boost shadow detail than lose highlights permanently. However, in general, I find the 3d-Matrix metering to work fine. I will play with the exposure sometimes, just to see if I can better it, but i usually keep it within .33 ev either way. You mentioned working in center weighted and spot...I tend to stick with the 3d matrix for most situations and use center or spot only when dealing with lower light situations.

 

6. I gotta admit that I don't really understand this complaint all that much. I can use spot metering while using the flash. Perhaps that is not what you are referring to. I certainly have never used high end equipment, so I am at a loss on this one.

 

All in all, I love my D70. I thought long and hard between sticking with Canon when going to DSLR or switching to Nikon. I heard all the arguments for either side, and went back and forth many times. But since actually taking the plunge (and upgrading the firmware) I have been nothing but happy. I finally gave my camera a full workout on my recent trip to Hawaii, and I think it performed wonderfully. (Of course, learning about the digital darkroom is a whole other experience).

 

Perhaps for a professional the D70 could be somewhat limiting, but for me, an avid "serious" amateur, I couldn't ask for anything more. (Well maybe exposure above 30 minutes, and possibly a mirror lock-up) but really those are very specific complaints.

 

If anything, the D70 has reawakened my love of photography. Just being able to shoot in digital wihtout the fear of wasting shots, and the instant feedback digital affords, has allowed me to experiment, and consequently, learn and improve.

[tholte]

Matt, you said it all and a good reason why the D70 sells like hot-cakes to serious amateurs like us.

[ShunCheung]

Ok guys, the D70/D70s has been discussed a lot of times here. It is a consumer-grade DSLR with some limitations, but it is indeed selling like hot cakes. There is no doubt that it meets a lot of people's needs. If you are not one of those people, you are welcome to express your opinions here, but there is no need to trash it. I, for one, am not interested in getting a D70s myself.

 

And Canon still makes some Elan with ECF??? That shows how little I know about Canon's SLRs.

[ramon_v__california_]

i have large hands but the D70 just fits. this is a matter of preference and shooting style. if you like a camera, you at least try to develop photo skills with it and through it. if you're not happy, and sure that it's the camera that is limiting you, then it's time for a change of equipment.

 

large or small hands, best way to come up with good images is using both hands -- one to cradle. exhaust all the fun avenues with the D70 before you spend your $$. a more expensive dslr will not give you all the answers to your limitations.

 

but if you can, go ahead and satisfy yourself. that's why it's a hobby.

[csuzor]

Thanks for the answers. I am enjoying the D70, and the pics have been excellent (I've printed several already at A4 size)... my comments were made after spending 6 hours in a zoo with the kids, and realising the camera is far from perfect.

 

1. The grip is small. Most canons have an canon optional vertical grip, there's a good reason for this. Why would Nikon not design the D70 with an optional grip? to get us to buy their more expensive models?

 

2. The viewfinder is small.

 

3. Manual focus is very difficult (remember when cameras had a split image manual focus aid in a center ring? that was easy to use!)

 

4. Auto-focus in low contrast or low light areas does not work. Since I work in AF-C mode, this is a real problem, and I have to recompose the image to non-ideal layout just to keep the focus (and then crop correctly on PC)

 

5. I may have to try 3d-matrix more often, it just seems strange to not know where the camera is getting it's exposure from!

 

6. The flash exposure is based on center only, so non-centered subjects are incorrectly exposed with flash, unless I use Flash Value lock... even though the focus point is on the subject! The TTL-BL mode is not useable with spot metering. Maybe I need more advice here...

 

I could add more issues (like the long wait to get the 5th shot when shooting NEF, the noise level which is a louder than my 12y old Canon, etc)

 

Not being able to spend 4x more for the D2x, I feel I have a mid-level consumer camera and I just have to live with these limitations.

 

I do plan to stick with Nikon now, but I hope there will be a camera in-between the D70 and the D2x that addresses my requirements.

 

Thanks

Christophe

[marco_p1]

Hi Cristophe, I share my "style" of using the D70, maybe you can try it out: I also use AFC, but I set AF to be activated with the back button so that I can focus and recompose all the time, or I can decide to focus manually and shoot without struggling with AF as in this way the shutter button only controls exposure and shutter. It is true that manual focus is difficult. I have set the exposure lock to be activated by half pressing the shutter button (useful for centerweight or spot if you have a medium tone around). Be warned that using exposure compensation is quite normal with CCW and spot, it depends on where you make the reading and how you want to expose, this way you have control over exposure, but then you MUST control it.

I find Matrix is reliable, i understand it tries to avoid blown highlight, if I meter manually I just do the same.

For flash I would try to use it in I-TTL, matrix metering (standard), you will find it very reliable for fill-in. If you see too much flash light in your shots, just dial-in some exposure compensation for the flash light only. I would stay away from CCW and spot for flash photography, if you want to fine tune I think it is better to set it in manual and adjust the power/f-stop by yourself. Hope this helps. By the way, of course this camera has limitations, but no toy can deliver the same image quality and that is what's important to me. Marco

[frank uhlig]

I hear that your main fear is to use the wonderful P mode, i-ttl mode on the D70, flash or no flash.

 

That you refuse to use this feature is no fault of the camera, but totally your decision, sir. So why blame the camera?

[mawz]

As to your problem with #6, well, Centre-weighted will always expose for the centre. It's how it works. If you want off-centre flash exposure, you need to use Matrix Metering (Which is how Canon does it as well).

[matt_t__brooklyn_]

Christophe: If you really want a vertical grip, there are some aftermarket options for a vertical grip. Hoodman makes one that connects optically to the infrared sensor. I've never used it, so I don't know how well it works, though. Perhaps others on this forum have tried it out. It is odd, though, that Nikon doesn't make a vertical grip...sure seems like a loss of revenue for the company.

 

Regarding the split image focusing that you refer to...it was my understanding that such type of focusing is not found on SLRs...that that is used in, I believe, ranger-finder cameras...a totally different beast. The advantage of the SLR is that you are actually looking through the lens, so what you see is what you get -- and that includes in terms of focus. Of course, if it is difficult to see, well that does make it more difficult.

[scott_carlsson]

This kind of post is hilarious. A little over 3.5 years ago, a friend shot our wedding with 2

Kodak/F5

bodies- a DCS 760 and a DCS 720X. With a few Nikkor lenses and a couple of Microdrives,

he had spent over <i>$15000.00</i> on the equipment. Now, less than 4 years later

we've got excellent, probably better overall image quality from bodies that are well under

$1000.00. (D70) And the on-camera Speedlite flash/fill capability blows away

what my friend had to deal with.

 

 

And yet the whiners and complainers are ever present, it would be so even if these current

bodies were now down to $300.00. Some things never change.

[fourfa]

<i>And yet the whiners and complainers are ever present, it would be so even if these current bodies were now down to $300.00. Some things never change.</i>

<p>

seems to me that people have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that this $800 body *IS* a $300 camera (with a $500 sensor inside). So it gets compared to the $800 film cameras.

<p>

1 - get an aftermarket grip. <p>

2 - I don't get it, since it's small why do you need to squint to see the whole frame at once? My FE-2 has a huge frame, and I can't see it all at once with my glasses on, seems like you should have the opposite problem. <p>

3 - true. practice make perfect but this is the biggest problem with the camera for me. <p>

4 - duh, the autofocus works on contrast in the focus box, what did you expect? <p>

5 - use matrix metering. <p>

6 - tons of flash exposure options you're not using, try them out. most people seem to think the flash exposure system is great.<p>

[beau 1664876222]

"seems to me that people have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that this $800 body *IS* a $300 camera (with a $500 sensor inside). So it gets compared to the $800 film cameras."

 

That's precisely what I was getting at. They have (at least temporarily) abandoned the "prosumer" who was accustomed to the F100 or whatever, so it's perfectly reasonable that a "prosumer" person would be annoyed with the chintzy compromises that used to be found only on the entry-level (i.e. "toy" -- sorry I hurt your camera's feelings earlier) models.

[._._z]

Beau has a point beyond the hackles he raised with the word 'toy.' As for the D70 being

a consumer-grade hotcake-selling filler-upper for the masses, so is McDonalds, but I

wouldn't spend $800 there either.

[marty_elan]

"seems to me that people have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that this $800 body *IS* a $300 camera (with a $500 sensor inside). So it gets compared to the $800 film cameras."

 

Same holds true with the pro-level digital cameras. The D2x is a $2K body with a $3K sensor. Canon's top tier has even a bigger I gotcha! Hey the reality is that hot new items come at a price. Remember those awful LED watches that cost a $100 when they first hit the market. Eventually they were had for a song.

[edmo]

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&user_id=998854">toy pics</a>

[._._z]

Not much of an argument. Lots of sub-$30 el-cheapo toy cameras have, in the right

hands, yielded wonderful photos. If you want to deal with a D70 and it's poor

viewfinder, average autofocus ISO 200 limitation, high noise above ISO 400, etc, fine --

you may work within (or use) its limitations to get decent photos. But they indeed are

limitations, which for some people make it an insifficient choice.