M6 or Zeiss Ikon?

[low light]

Hi all, I'm going to New York soon and I'm saving up to buy a new

camera, I've always wanted to get a rangefinder ( I currently use an

F100 ). After reading a lot of the older posts on Photo.net the

Leica M seems to be the best travel camera. My budget is about 1200

GBP which can get me an M6 & 50mm lens in Exc++ condition from a

reputable dealer. The thing is, I've been looking at the new Zeiss

Ikon and it looks fantastic value for money, for the same price I

can get one new with a 50mm lens. The question is, which would you

choose?

[Bill Blackwell Images]

Well, given the fact no one has had the opportunity to try a new Ziess-Ikon, I'm not sure how anyone could reasonably advise you at this time. When it is available, since it has an electronic shutter, a better comparison (since an M6 is completely manual) would be with an M7.

[patricks]

If going to NYC, go to Rich Pinto www.photovillage.com and he'll set you up. As always, you'll pay top dollars when you buy from an auth. dealer, but at least you can sleep more comfortably at night knowing that there is some type of warranty on what you bought.

 

As stated, Ikon is not an option at this point.

[low light]

I live in N.Ireland so buying in the the UK would be a lot easier for me, especially if the camera went faulty during the warranty period.

[donald_ingram1]

The M6 is as safe a bet as they come: it's had an almost problem run for more than 20

years. 50 years if you include the M3.

 

There's only one common fault I'm aware of : the frame counter.

Mine eventually needed to be replaced, after 10 years, as it would not reset. The part was

free, but I had to pay for a basic clean and tweak service.

 

Other than that you have a proven system camera with everything you need, and will be

repairable from as long as 35mm film is available.

 

The Zeiss is an unknown - it might have a flaw like the winder failure on Mamiya 6's that

only becomes apparent after 5 years - or it might be extremely reliable.

[tom5]

I would suggest buying the camera with a 35mm Summicron. For me, the 35mm sees the

most use for travel.

[albert_smith]

<I>I've been looking at the new Zeiss Ikon and it looks fantastic value for money...</I><P>

 

Based on what historical data? There is no track record yet.<P>

 

I paid 2000 Dollars for my M6 in 1988. It is still perfect in all operations after thousands of rolls of film, and it has never been serviced. At just over one hundred Dollars per year so far, and with that cost going down with each new year, I would say that my Leica M6 has given me fantastic value for my initial cost.<P>

 

The Zeiss Ikon may or may not be a fine camera, but no one knows yet. The first real-world shooters to buy and use them will be the real beta testers. When I bought my Leica, the concept and performance of the M class camera was fully realized and proven.<P>

[Troll]

The Zeiss Ikon will be available shortly. It is a 21st Century design, whereas a Leica M is basically 50+ years old. Unless the money is burning a hole in your pocket, why don't you just wait until the Zeiss comes online. Haste makes waste.

[Alex_Es]

Anthony,

 

The Zeiss Ikon has not been released yet. Like the others here, I can vouch for the M6. The classic (non-TTL) M6 is now among the least expensive of the M Leicas and is very good in terms of handling, battery life, etc. It is mechanical and the metering is manual. The Zeiss Ikon will be automatic.

 

I highly recommend Tamarkin in New York for used Leicas. They are very good guys up there who care about photographers. If you go up, say an especially warm hello to Craig from me.

[lot_wxs]

I thought that - on paper - Leica M was still the most accurate RF thus far, including the new Zeiss, given the fact that its effective measurement base is the longest of all RF's. To reduce costs, you could also try the M6 with a Zeiss 50/2.0 which will definitely have the typical Zeiss 'fingerprint', but I would not advise a Zeiss body with a Leica lens.

[Eddie1664878514]

M6 (or actually, I would say a black MP) - I have seen many (including myself) eventually purchased Lecia M if they really like rangefinder, but for costs reason they don't do it at the very beginning, ending up wasting much much more money on other systems, but getting what they actually want very late.

[jerry_lehrer]

Tony,

 

The ZI is a mythical camera. It exists in computer generated drawings. Who has ever seen it in the metal? I don't mean a mock-up,

I mean a functional manufactured camera.

 

Get a M6 with a 35mm, not a 50mm lens, if you want to photograph NYC.

I lived there for 22 years, and found that the wider the better.

 

Jerry

[andrew_hall1]

>Leica M was still the most accurate RF thus far, including the new Zeiss

 

This claim is only valid for the 0.85 finder version (which lacks the 28mm framelines.) The Zeiss Ikon is supposedly more accurate than the 0.72 M. http://www.nemeng.com/leica/031b.shtml

 

Do you do daylight fill flash? Do you mind finding a place for the bottom plate when changing film? Do you know the M6's rangefinder patch can flare up so badly (like mine did before adding the SHADE) it's often unusable? Would you like a larger eyepiece? Do you need/want AE?

 

I'd hold out for a couple of months and compare the Zeiss Ikon with a Leica M side by side.

[ben z]

"I paid 2000 Dollars for my M6 in 1988. It is still perfect in all operations after thousands of rolls of film, and it has never been serviced. At just over one hundred Dollars per year so far"

 

Well I've been told on this forum that my calculations are "skewed" but I think I've got some good news: given that your M6 has a sale value today of right around $1000, that works out to about $58/yr. Even if you factor in 1988 dollars vs 2005 dollars (but not lost interest since we'll assume you'd have bought some other camera anyway)I doubt that you're even close to $100/yr.

[m_elek]

there were plenty of us who saw the real camera at photoexpo at the jacob javitz center. real camera, real shutter, real rangefinder, really worked. grow up.

[andrew_hull]

"Get a M6 with a 35mm"

 

Exactly, follow the other lemmings. Make sure and use Tri-X and soup in D-76. That way

it can even look like everything else, too!

[trojan_horse]

The label's important eh Anthony?

 

For that kind of money, might as well get a Hasselblad 500 series.

[jerry_lehrer]

melek,--- You saw a mock-up, right? Did you take pictures with it that you could see, after developement?

 

Jerry

[david k.]

Anthony, the Zies may well prove to be fine, but it may take 5+ years to find out. The Contax G1/G2 were also excellent cameras, but they aren't exactly hot properties today.

 

The M6 Classic has been around for 20 years now (I have two 1985 units) and has worked flawlessly, it is a superb photographic instrument. A CLA and viewfinder upgrade and it is a good as a new MP.

[dan flanders]

From what I have been able to discern the IKON is airware until shipped and tried. We know its ancestry and it is so-so. Some of the IKON lenses apparently have been issued and so far I have not heard any negatives of consequence. The price differential appears to be in favor of the Zeiss lenses but the Leicas have a track record that just can't be beat.

[aizan_sasayama]

Buy the M6 now, and trade for a Zeiss Ikon later on if you'd like aperture-priority AE and/

or viewable 28mm framelines.

 

Lol at the Leicaphiles freaking out about the Zeiss Ikon. Something wicked this way comes!

[low light]

The ZI costs 780GBP from Robert white in the uk and the lens is 495 GBP. I think it will be a good buy for a quality camera that can use carl zeiss lenses.

[tom_burke3]

Don't forget the prices on the Robert White website are EXCLUDING VAT. The actual retail

price for a Brit - nay, any european - from Robert White would therefore be 780 + 17.5%

= 916.50. For that price you could indeed buy a good-quality s/h M6 (possibly even an

M6 TTL) from a UK dealer.

[Dave16]

Since you are UK-based, my advice is go to London and visit Pied Bull Yard (opp the British Museum).

You will find three reputable specialist camera dealers there, within a few yards of each other. They all hold loads of stock, and one is a Leica specialist. You can look at different cameras, hold them, see what you like best.

 

The M6 is a nice camera, but you may decide to go for an older model. If you want a camera to use now you can ask whether the camera has had a recent CLA or not.

 

I bought my 111c (1941 vintage) from the Leica specialist at Pied Bull Yard several years ago, and it is in great working order.

[dave_chadderton]

Anthony,

 

As I was nearby I took a visit to Robert White just over a year ago when I was looking into a new rangefinder. I wasn't sure whether it would be MP or M7, and lenses were also in debate. They pandered to my every whim, and I must have gone thru evry camera in the display, plus some from their stock (including a Mamiya 7II which I absolutely loved). I spent an hour in the place and then walked out without buying .... but the service was so good that when I was in a position to buy, one quick phone call to Robert Whites and I received my M7 / Tri-Elmar / CV75 kit within 2 working days. The service throughout was outstanding and I've thanked Robert their help.

 

The point is that when you're spending 'a lot of money' you can't really put a price on peace of mind.