F3 Secondhand tips...

[blueisland]

I'm going to buy a secondhand F3. I have used the FM2n with a set of

primes for sometime but would like the option of viewfinders that the

f3 gives.

Any tips, things to look out for in trying to find the best one apart

from the obvious wear & tear. ??

 

Thanks.

[ShunCheung]

I don't have an F3 myself and am not pointing out anything specific about the F3; there are many people who are in a much better positioin to do that.

 

However, there was a thread on buying an F6 in Singapore while someone is there in transit for just a few hours. We discussed a number of items one should check on a new F6 body. A lot of those same points should also apply to buying a used F3. Checking out the AF capability is not one of them, though. :-)

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Cqlt

[mark_jordan3]

I've owned an F3 for years and they're pretty much built like a tank...the only weak point I would look out for would be the condition of the LCD display. As they age the display will dim to the point they give out completely and need to be replaced. My F3 is around 15 years old and the display is still going relatively strong, but I've seen some with this problem.

[charles_miller]

I love my F3, even in this day of amazing electronic photography. It is one of the all-time great film cameras. And you will be even happier with yours if you can avoid expensive problems.

 

An F3 has a lot of electronic components mounted on a flexible circuit. If *any* function of the flex circuit goes bad, the entire flex circuit must be replaced. If so, the repair cost is probably more than the camera is worth. Moral....check out the camera very thoroughly before making a final commitment to buy.

 

F3s are usually very, very stable. But, a complete CLA for F3s involves substantial dis-assembly, and it also requires specific electronic instruments including an o'scope for checking and adjusting shutter calibration. So the cost of a complete CLA may also be more than the camera is worth.

 

If the LCD has faded segments or faded digits, it is probably caused by a defective flex circuit, not the LCD. See above.

 

Watch out for a shutter release button that fails to operate unless you let off the button and press again. This may happen only one time per roll. This probably means a new release button is needed due to the original having received a terrific amount of use. This means other parts of the camera may be worn too.

 

The shutter button and all the top control wheels operate electrical contacts under the top plate. If there is a problem here, a part probably needs to be replaced. A shot of contact cleaner will probably not let you sneak by with a cheap repair.

 

Naturally, looks for dings and dents in the shutter foil. Shoot blue sky or a brick wall on slide film at every speed, and look carefully for banding.

 

In manual mode, the shutter speed dial operates in whole stop increments only. There are no intermediate shutter speed increments. This is not a malfunction on an F3.

 

The LCD illuminator button is impractical and the little lamp puts out so little light you may not be able to see it in the daytime. That is normal does not require a repair.

 

I hope these are the sort of things you wanted to know about.

 

 

Charlie

[Robert_Lai]

If the F3 has an Achilles' heel, it is the functional (?) resistance element (FRE) that allows the ISO to be set at the base of the flash shoe. A bad knock on the flash unit when mounted on the camera could crack the FRE. Best to play with the compensation dial and see if the shutter speeds compensate appropriately. Also, mount a flash and make sure that it fires consistently (i.e. 100% of the time). Also, when the flash is turned on, the shutter speed should show 1/80 if the shutter speed dial is set to a speed faster than the X synch speed. A red LED should light up in the finder when the flash is fully charged. If the flash had to fire at maximum power, the LEDs will flash in the finder and on the flash itself. You can test this by setting a lens at f/16 and shooting at something very far away in a darkened room.<p>Turn the camera over. I've had one F3 sent to me where the mounting of the prism was cracked off, and the owner had never noticed it. So, have a look at the base of the prism right over the lens mount yourself to verify its integrity.<p>While the camera is turned over, check to see if the cover plate of the motor drive hole in the baseplate is still there. Some motor driven F3 cameras have lost their cover plate. It will cost you $18 to get another one. Without that plate, light will enter the film chamber! Your alternatives are to get a plate or get a motor drive to fill that hole.<p>Try opening the film chamber. You need to flick a safety catch at the base of the rewind knob in order to do so. If the back opens up without you having to push over the latch, then there's a problem!<p>Look at the film chamber. Heavy motor drive usage will show as loss of paint in the film chamber due to the cartridge being pulled back and forth slightly by the drive. You can also see wear on the pressure plate of a heavily used camera. The same camera with the cracked prism base also had the blackening totally worn off the pressure plate. Check the guide rails for integrity. Check the shutter curtains as you wind slowly, to examine the visible surfaces. Set the camera on B, and you can look through the entire film chamber. You should see no loss of blackening. The metering cell will be staring at you from the floor of the film chamber. It should be pretty dust free there, and the metering cell's lens should be intact. Now, set the double exposure lever and then wind again. You should see the shutter resetting, but see no movement from the film advance train. If these things aren't working, your camera needs servicing.<p>With all used Nikons, check the aperture stop down lever on the left of the camera as you hold it with the lens mount facing you. It should project straight, and move down and up quickly as you fire the shutter. A bad lens change can bend this lever. Your lens may not stop down correctly if it has been bent. To verify its motion, use the stop down button and watch the lever move. You can also set the mirror lock slowly, and watch the mirrors move. There is a secondary mirror behind the main mirror of the F3. It directs light going through pinholes in the main mirror to the metering cell. Both should fold up nicely as you lock the mirror up. While in that area, check that the exposure lock button is still there. In earlier F3's this button had a tendency to fall out. If it is there, check its function by locking in an exposure with the camera pointed to a bright light source (e.g. store lighting), and then swinging it towards a dark area with the button held down. The meter reading shouldn't change.<p>Examine the AI follower around the lens mount. It should travel freely, then spring back to near the lens mounting dot. Push in the little silver pin on the AI follower, and you should be able to lift up the silver tab. That allows you to mount non-AI lenses on this camera.<p>Finally, take the prism off the top by sliding the latches on the prism back. Set the prism down with it's top against the table, NOT the glass! Look in the prism's chamber in the camera. Significant wear here indicates a lot of prism changes. As long as the screen's seating is OK, your focusing will not be affected. If there is damage here, you may never be able to focus this camera properly, as the lens mount to screen distance will be different from the lens mount to film distance.<p>There's probably more that I'll have forgotten to mention. However, even a very clean F3 may need a CLA if it hasn't been used in years, so keep in mind that a clean cosmetic condition may not mean perfection either. But, you can certainly tell an abused one if you follow what has been said.

[blueisland]

Charlie & Robert, thanks a lot, its all very helpful.......

[jim_m5]

<i>"If the LCD has faded segments or faded digits, it is probably caused by a defective flex circuit, not the LCD."</i> <br> <br>

 

I've been around F3's for many years including pro shop counter sales in the early 90's and have never heard of this flex circuit business...and cannot see how you could make any pre-sale determination of it's condition without something being non-functional. I've seen a number of LCD display's needing replacement...which is a fairly inexpensive repair...it's commonly known the display has a fixed life (http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/nikonf3ver2/f3manual/detail/detail3.htm) If the body is in good enough condition chances are the display has seen nominal actuation and should be good for awhile.<p>

I think Robert offers some practical advice, but realize there is only so much you can tell by just looking at it. If you want solace, I'd recommend buying from a reputable dealer offering a 30 to 60 day guarantee and really put it through it's paces. Jim

[lex_jenkins]

A piece of black tape will cover the motor drive hole in the base plate to prevent light leakage. That's all I use on the rare occasions when I don't use the MD-4 motor drive.

 

Unless you plan to take advantage of the F3's limited TTL flash capabilities it might be a better idea to use a flash bracket and the standard sync socket to avoid using the shoe over the rewind knob, which really makes film changes awkward.

[asaf_tzadok]

I own F3 for about year. I advice you to check that it can work with a flash using AS-8 or AS-11. Mine seems to have a problem. I do get flash ready indicator but it does not flash. I checked it with 2 samples.

[charles_miller]

"I've been around F3's for many years including pro shop counter sales in the early 90's and have never heard of this flex circuit business."

 

Well, I was told what happened to one of my F3s was that the LCD was OK but the drive circuit on the flex circuit was bad. Maybe they were wrong, or maybe I just had a rare problem. anyway, I can accept that a weak LCD segment can usually be fixed relatively cheaply by replacing only the LCD.

 

However, I bought a complete Nikon shop manual for the F3, and according to the pictures, the several schematic diagrams, and the long multi-page theory of operation, there is a big hairy flex circuit with lots of electronic components inside of an F3.

 

Cheers,

 

Charlie

[john_newell2]

Not sure what that flexible circuit "board" is made of in the F3, but I have experience with these in other electronics. The "boards" (mylar film in most cases) themselves are almost indestructible. Unfortunately, this is not necessarily true of the electronic components mounted on them.

[charles_miller]

Flex circuits are made from high a temperature plastic such as Kapton. Yes, the plastic sheet itself is almost indestructable. But the copper traces, to which the circuit components are surface-mount soldered, come loose from the Kapton very easily. So it is rare to find someone who will even attempt to replace an individual component on an F3 flex circuit. But if someone is repairing F3 flex circuits rather than replacing them, would you please comment?