$14 eyeliner...retail therapy and marketing

[stacy]

Today at the mall I bought a $14 eyeliner- for you boys out there

with no eyeliner experience that's about $10 more than the average

eyeliner. So after I got home I started to think about why I did it

and marketing. 1. The name "Urban Decay" 2. the packaging 3. I just

wanted to buy something "retail therapy" if you will 4. I wanted to

buy something at that store.

 

So a question for you marketing people out there: How to market to

the next level-above giving your info to venues and wedding planners

and florists- and above advertising on the Knot. What does it take

to go from being successful to being extremely successful?

Do you need an ad in Grace Ormonde? Or a storefront? How do you go

from being a drug store product to a fancy boutique product?

 

I know eyeliner and wedding photography aren't really the same

thing, but maybe the same ideas apply?

[kbreak]

I read that the best eyeliner and mascara come from local chain drugstores; they're actually name brand under the covers and fresh, since the supply always moves there.<BR><BR>:P

[erik_hornung]

Before I give an answer, is the $14 eyeliner really better than the $4 eyeliner? Or are you just paying for the name "urban decay"?

 

In the wedding photography industry, I wonder, how many couple hire based on the name or on the quality of the product?

 

Very good question, i'm totally going to lose sleep over this :)

[al_kaplan1]

...and do women wear make-up to attract men or to impress other women?

[timcorridan]

neither al, they were it to feel better..i wonder if packaging=custom website

[al_kaplan1]

So I guess the secret to success is a catchy name like "Urban Putrification Photography" with package prices "...starting just over $10,000.00 for up to 3 hours coverage and 12 exquisite 5x7 color prints, album additional".

[todd frederick]

Some of us sell very fine wedding photographic services (time, sweat, and product) for $800 and other sell the same services for $3000+. I think what Stacy is saying that the real difference is in marketing...and that's something I would like to explore as well.

[colleendonovan]

Hmmm... I always buy the $14 eyeliner because it doesn't make my eyes all scratchy. I'm glad you asked this question Stacy, because I have been thinking about this for months.

[fotografz]

It's like marketing anything ... target the right audience. Learn everything about them.

 

People with money travel in a pack. They rely on recommendations from one another.

They read upscale magazines, and so should you. They like to be recognized, be on a first

name basis with owners of tony restaurants, and they like to work with recognized people.

 

Getting the first one is the trick. After that it's word of mouth. Plus you can cite such a

wedding to planners.

[nstock]

"People with money travel in a pack."

as do wolves and hyenas....

but Marc is right.

 

As to eyeliner, I think $14 or $4 for what appears to be, and acts like, a soft leaded colored pencil is simply too much to pay. In fact, if Elizabeth Arden et al had to rely on ppl like me for their $$ they would be doing weddings on the side to pay the bills!

 

Dressing up and make up are a complete waste of time. Everyone is always worried about how they look to other ppl when everyone is only really worried about their own looks.

 

Trust me.. the mirror is where ppl are looking so it won't matter if you wear $14 eyeliner or none at all.

[c_d5]

The thing is, the market right now is flooded with many photographers who compete in weddings arena. Not sure if the supply is more than the demand, but certainly suddenly potential brides have more choices than ever. But, I notice that the skills and techniques has not been improved. While many wedding photographer has their own unique style and feeling that only they themselves can do. Most wedding photographer and new photographers offers the same type of images. You can't charge people more for something that is the same than the others. I believe that we have to start to find a way to educate the consumers better. What to expect in a wedding album, what is the variety of styles out there, how to choose a wedding photographer that they won't regret. In a sense, we have to refine their taste pallete. Some maybe content with a truckers diner, and others may look for a more delicate cuisine. So, in conclusion. I believe that educating the consumers is the key.

[James G. Dainis]

I have a deal with my wife, I don't ask her why she needs ten different shades of taupe eye shadow and she doesn't ask me why I need another lens.

[darrin ballman www.crossl]

Marc nailed it.....and I think it can serve as a reminder or wake-up call because it's easy to get caught up in "what to do next" marketing, and lose sight of the target audience (assuming it was targeted in the first place). As we often see here on the forums, it's easy to get caught up in overthinking many things from packaging, quality vs pricing ratio, flash-web site or no flash...etc...etc...while it's important to put thought into things, there does have to be a defined audience - whether that be upscale or not. But for your thought, Stacy, regarding upscaling, I think Marc said it best. Mmmm..more to think about tonight...

[Jerry_]

It is basically your ability to sell your services. If you are somewhat gifted in the photography skill area, and are a very smooth talker __ there is no limit to getting new clients or customers or brides-to-be.

[fotografz]

As far as the product is concerned, think of it like you would any "luxury item".

 

Monied people seek value for their money. How do you package yourself and your product

to offer a luxury value? Fine craftsmanship, a sense of exclusivity, being extremely

conscience of what images you show and keeping the quantity more quality oriented, plus

longevity or lasting value.

 

As an interesting side note, I use to show fully matted 11X14 or 16X20 hand pulled B&W

selenium toned silver prints to prospective clients instead of an album. I never failed to

sign a client after doing that. I don't do that any longer, instead show an album or on

screen show like everyone else ... and the signings fell off to about 80%. Hmmmm...

[jennea]

As someone said above, the first thing you must do is figure out who your target

audience is, what they want in a product, and what they are willing to spend on it. Is it

something you are capable and willing to provide?

 

There are many different target audiences in the wedding photography realm and you

need to first look at which of those audiences fit what you want to provide. Some search

for the cheapest photographer for their money, no matter the quality. To go back to your

makeup analogy, these would be your 'Wet-n-Wild' customers. On the other end of the

spectrum you have your upscale shoppers, the ones who feel that if they spend a fortune

on their wedding photographer, a photographer that appears in all the right

magazines, they must be getting a high end product. Think 'Borghese.'

In between these you have a variety of customer groups, all with specific desires and

amounts they are willing to spend to attain their desires. One photographer is not capable

of attaining all of these audiences, though there will at times be overlap. In addition, in

any of these brackets a photographer can make money if they know how to run a business

and provide a product and price combination that fits their target market. This is why all

of those makeup companies out there still exist, because the market provides a wide

variety of clientele. Photography for profit is not about being the best photographer in the

world--it's about making sure the quality of photograph you provide and the price you

charge fit the audience you seek.

[stacy]

Thanks everyone. I do know who my clients are so it's really not a matter of defining my target audience. And we can normally book the client if we get a meeting and they meet us and see our albums- etc. I just want to be able to bring more ideal clients to the door, but I'm not sure what steps to take now. I've done all the small stuff and it's working- but my clients are probably a pretty small section of the population. That's why I was thinking maybe I need a store or a well placed ad...both very expensive. What is the next step?

 

Oh- and no my $14 eyeliner does not seem to work any better than the $4 ones- they are just pencils :)

[al_kaplan1]

So if Kodak were to rethink their decision to get out of film based products, start marketing a new "wedding & portrait" film only through "exclusive select dealers" for $27.50 for a 36 exposure roll, and come up with a really catchy name for it would people start abandoning digital?

[christiaan_phleger___honol]

The Great Marc Williams Says: "As far as the product is concerned, think of it like you

would any "luxury item".

Monied people seek value for their money. How do you package yourself and your product

to offer a luxury value? Fine craftsmanship, a sense of exclusivity, being extremely

conscience of what images you show and keeping the quantity more quality oriented, plus

longevity or lasting value."

 

So so very right. High quality costs, and people with a lot of money often (not all the time)

know exactly what that high quality is. Many of my clients know precisely what I offer, and

search me out, and they often know exactly what a hand made (by me), toned gelatin

silver fiber based print is.

As well, word of mouth within a social group is very effective. We once did one high-

profile wedding, and for several years afterwards we did multiple weddings of people that

attended the brides school.

Again as Marc says, its getting the first one. You may want to extend your social network,

perhaps an uncle plays golf at a club, and he may know someone who needs a

photographer.

Don't forget, just because you don't have a big name (yet!) doesn't mean that you can't do

the juicy weddings. Brides are often looking for the 'next big thing' and love to get a Hot

Photographer right as they start getting hot, and will often take a photographer who looks

as if they are going to be the next Marc Williams (!).

 

So play it up, be Hot!

Show a portfolio with a risky image or two, and ask the bride to be if she likes or dislikes

the shot, and don't be afraid to pull it out if it stinks or keep it in no matter how edgy it

seems if it gets the good response.

 

Aloha!

[fotografz]

Thanks for the compliment Christiaan. But we aren't doing all that "great" breaking into

the upper strata either. We have seemed to hit a ceiling in this area, and are no better off

than Stacy in our attempt to move beyond it.

 

There are two ethnic groups in S.E. Michigan that pay big bucks for wedding photography,

but there are a number of established photographers covering that demographic and they

seem to have it pretty well locked up.

 

The wealthier demographics beyond those groups live in either Grosse Point or the newly

rich in the Birmingham/Bloomfield area, or the mushrooming communities of Mc

Mansions North and North East of Detroit. Currently we draw decent priced weddings

from the latter two geographic areas. But we work our behinds off for that money, and

provide a lot of value that involves additional expenses and a lot of time.

 

We haven't specifically targeted this group with advertising, haven't broken into the

vendor/supplier/planner markets, nor have we done any Bridal shows. All these are under

consideration now.

 

I am fairly certain that doing work they way I have for the last year or two has been a

misstep. Shooting digital and providing basically the same physical product as

competitors doesn't help separate us from the pack. So I need to be more selective in

choosing the images to display the way I did when starting out. In an attempt to show

extensive coverage, the work became less unique when compared to other photographers

in the area.

[stacy]

Marc- that surprises me to hear you say that. Your shots are beautiful and show a very unique style- I can't imagine your competition would have similar shots. I guess it's no good being unique though if you can't get people to your door to show them your work. Hmmm...

 

I have a 2 hour drive today for our wedding and I bet I'll be thinking about his the whole drive :)

[mattalofs]

"In an attempt to show extensive coverage, the work became less unique when compared to other photographers in the area."

 

I have a suspicion that the market you want might actually see extensive coverage as a lower value service; it might seem like buying in bulk. It's the bargain customer who thinks that quantity equals value.

 

I know I've mentioned this before on the forum, but I'd much rather deliver 40-50 really stunning prints than a cd of 500+ images. Selling this to customers is the trick though.

[twmeyer]

"<i>...So I need to be more selective in choosing the images to display the way I did when starting out. In an attempt to show extensive coverage, the work became less unique...</i><p>Right. <p>The only thing that surprises me about this statement is that you (Marc) managed to slip into this quite common state of mind. You seem too self aware and astute to make this mistake. I know it's the result of a slow creep into a client oriented thinking, rather than a deliberate adjusting of the marketing plan. It's a common pitfall for those of use who depend on happy clients to pay the bills. <p>It's hard to remember that we should put the work <i>we</i> like the best out front, in order to find clients that <i>want what we do</i>, rather than changing who we are to find a client. <p>If you define who you are according to trends in the market, you'll always be one step behind the vanguard, and you'll be lost in a crowd of competent, but standard image makers... t

[picturesque]

Breaking into the very top strata (old money) depends on knowing someone in that strata or at least, knowing a vendor to that strata. You can have the best and most unique product and if you're lucky, someone that works with or are in that strata will notice and give you a chance, but that is extremely rare and not something you can count on. It might work if you have a physical, retail type product, but not with wedding photography. To go along with this, you must have the "charisma" to back up your entry into that strata. You can't present yourself as "photographer to the middle class" (including ads in middle class venues) if you want to work at the top. This involves your manner, your clothes, your "unique" portoflio, etc (a definite "persona").

 

Right below the top strata are the "wanna bes". They do everything the top strata does, but are not old money so are a little more insecure. Your "manner and clothes" have a lot more impact on them than at the top. You might break into this level without knowing someone just by being different. Even though this level has money, they are still price conscious, and if it looks like they might get something similar to what the top gets for less, you might stand a chance.

 

You should make a decision to either market yourself to these groups or not. If you are happy working with the levels below these, keep doing what you're doing. If you want to work with these levels, you have to re-think your entire "persona" and start trying to find ways to "know someone". A consequence of actually making it into these levels is not working with the levels below, something that would make me think twice. That part goes to how you feel about the service you provide.

 

Stacy, I would ask myself what "extremely successful" means.

[bruce_rubenstein___nyc]

One source of bookings that I've read about recently was Wedding Planners. Think of them as general contractors for the wedding world. Many of the high end weddings are put together by wedding planners. It's like having a house built and you just want to deal with one, general contractor, instead of every speciality sub contractor.

 

Find out who the wedding planners in your area are. Then meet with them and try to get on their "A" list. This often doesn't come for free; planners will expect 10% of your fee for every wedding you book from one of their referrals. If this can move you from 2K weddings to 6K weddings it's a good deal.