fotografz Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 For those interested in R photography, AND how Leica may compete in the digital world, I can say "fabulous" if this DMR is any indication. I received the DMR on Friday, charged it up and tested it right away. Was impressed enough to slap a 28-90R on it and stuff it in the Canon bag along with the 1DsMKII and a full compliment of L glass... then off to shoot an outdoor wedding and reception today. Very bright and contrasty lighting conditions ... a real acid test of any digital camera. Well, I shot about 130 images with the R9 sans fill flash (don't have one yet), and the damned thing stood toe-to-toe with the Canon which I used fill flash with. The dynamic range of the Leica is phenomenal for a digital camera. I still have a small learning curve with the DMR, but it's just a shoot way or so before all the settings are refined to my style of shooting. The handling was superior to the Canon 1DsMKII IMO, and the whole rig is lighter. The battery seems to be long lasting, even with constant review on the LCD. I really like how they set up the Histogram as a faint chart line over a full image. I did experience 2 files with a strange thin line running through the photo. But it was none existent on all the rest. Well see, as we shoot more, if it re-appears again in future. I'm geeked, and plan on using it again at tomorrow's wedding shoot.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Thanks for posting Marc. It looks noisy though for 400? How's it compare to the MKII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthuryeo Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Yup, the noise is pretty obvious in the shadows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry_rory Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 That looks like noise I would experience at 800 - 1600 but still a nice pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo ledesma Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I think the noise you guys are seeing is the womans complexion, not to be mean or anything :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_eppstein Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Definitely noise not complexion. It's in her hair, not just on her skin. But without knowing what sort of noise reduction has been applied it's hard to tell whether it's something to be concerned about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brentdlong Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 <i>"I think the noise you guys are seeing is the womans complexion, not to be mean or anything :)"</i> <p>I think that here "complexion" has spilled over and onto the floor and walls, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawngibson Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I can tell that's not a nominal ISO shot (100), but the Leica is still only a couple of years away from Canon. Bravo, Leica. They'll get it right next time...2008? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeled Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 can you post one with the EXIF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Nice image, but wouldn't the 20D produce a less noisy image in the same circumstances, even at a higher 'iso'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anthony_brookes5 Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I'm showing your pic to a colleague with the latest megabucks and megabits Canon this afternoon. Will get his opinion and post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 The noise is of my making. I lifted this image's shadows to far (remember, I wasn't using fill flash because I don't have a flash for the R9 yet) ... and I also sharpened the web upload to much late last night after working 10 hours. No noise reduction was employed, even in the RAW# developer. BTW, the Bride pictured does have a freckled complexion, so those that noticed that were correct. I also haven't tweaked the in-camera settings on the DMR yet, and will do so as I learn more about how it handles certain conditions. In the meantime, I'll post another ISO 400 shot taken in high contrast lighting conditions. I have a 20D, and from this preliminary experience this camera is waaaaay better. Some people like ultra smooth looking digital, I don't. IMO, this camera produces a more film like visual feel over-all... perhaps due to being a CCD sensor rather than a CMOS. I also noticed that it produced much better spectral highlights without the harsh edging than even the 1DsMKII produces using Contax C/Y glass. I do think the Canons are very good at very high ISOs but subjectively have never liked the files when faced with drastic contrast. Most of my work is done at ISO 200 to 400, with an occasional need to use the super high ISOs ... so the 1DsMKII isn't being replaced with this camera. What I need now are some Leica R lenses that are faster than this 28-90 zoom... so I can shoot available light at hand holdable shutter speeds. This may, and I stress "may" become an excellent available light digital for the way I tend to shoot. While the Canons DO work well at high ISOs, I don't like the handling of the contrast when strong light sources and deep shadows are present in the scene... which is a frequent occurrence with wedding work ... like this shot where the window was extremely bright and the background hallway extremely dark ... which I thought the Leica DMR handled quite well ....<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 Hmmm, There appears to be banding in the above web upload, but it is not in the image file at all. I even printed it to be sure. I wonder why that happened? Here, I'll load it as a larger file and you'll have to click on it if interested. Hey Peter thanks. I'll keep at it, and as I shorten the learning curve that one has to do with any new digital camera, I'll let you know the progress. Sure wish I had kept all my Leica R glass now. Need a 19/2.8, 35/1.4, 80/1.4 or 90/2, and 180/2.8 APO for this kit to be truly usable for weddings. The 28-90R zoom is great, but too slooooow at the long end.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 I've been shooting digital off and on for three and one-half years, from 5 megapixels to 14 megapixels. Resolving power continues to be one of my prime criteria, and my Kodak 14n has been fine on resolving power but not so good at higher ISOs and in situations of low light. In situations of high contrast it has been so-so. These photos, by contrast, show both very good resolving power (considering the ISO) and good dynamic range. I am very impressed, Marc. Here is another take on the comparison of the Leica and the Canon 1Ds Mark II: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/252585 --Lannie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy m. Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Thanks for the info Marc - Who am I to argue? I have only dabbled with digital imaging. I am interested to learn about the benefits of using non-digital -optimized glass with a digital sensors. I keep reading in the photography press about problems in the corners due to the angle of light incidence or something like that. Is this not an issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben z Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 "The noise is of my making. I lifted this image's shadows to far (remember, I wasn't using fill flash because I don't have a flash for the R9 yet)" Marc, you do know that the DMR is incapable of doing any kind of TTL flash other than using the "f" pre-flashmetering function? To do fill flash you will need to use a flash with manual power settings and a handheld flashmeter and make the calcs yourself, or a flash with an AUTO setting and fool it with the wrong ISO or a different aperture than the flash calculator indicates. If you've got a Vivitar 283 or similar lying around you can do the fill with about 95% of the function you'll get buying the Metz 54 and a SCA module (the only advantage there is that it telegraphs the lens aperture and DMR's ISO to the flash). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted July 31, 2005 Author Share Posted July 31, 2005 Thanks Ben. I didn't know that. I tried the SF20 on TTL and it just didn't work. Hope Metz makes something for this camera eventually. However, I have found that Auto seems to work just as well or better (at least more simply) on other Digital cameras, so I'll give it a try that way first. I like adjusting the flash ISO, it's so no brainer to achieve fill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maestro logos Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Hi Marc. Regarding the "film-like" quality, I suspect it might have something to do with the DMR capturing colors in 16-bit rather than 14- or 12-bit, thus producing smoother tones. (Theoretically this means 64 to 4096 times more colors.) When the DMR was announced I considered this the most interesting "virtue" albeit it has rarely been mentioned. Also it might have something to do with the absence of a moir filter. To me images from the DMR look as if they come from medium format backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdnguyen Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Marc, thanks for posting the DMR pics. They definitely have Leica look. I use R lenses on my Canon 1D and no matter what I do they don't have the Leica look ... I think it's in the chip ? The bokeh on the Leica lens looks better but that's about it. looking forward to own a DMR one of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben z Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Hope Leica encrypted their firmware code so no one could hack it. Just think of what would happen if the code to the Leica Look fell into the hands of Nikon or Canon : ) Personally, I think the shot has the Marc Williams Look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albert knapp md Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 great thread... My DMR is scheduled to reach me courtesy of Rich Pinto this September. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 The noise/moire issue can best be evaluated by looking at photos downloadable directly from the Leica site: http://www.leica-camera.com/imperia/md/images/leica/produkte/rsystem/dmr/40.jpg Caution: big file, slow download! --Lannie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Don't think I'd spend that kind money on any camera that couldn't do ttl flash... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Here is a resized version of the image I alluded to above, with the copyright at the bottom of the image.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landrum Kelly Posted July 31, 2005 Share Posted July 31, 2005 Here is an enlargement of a small section at the bottom right of the same image.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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