xcapekey.com Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 hi there..i have several AI lenses and no AF lenses...i essentially need a body that will let me do flash compensation with AI lenses and the Sb-28dx...will the F4 do this? i've read that the f4 is one of the most backward compatible bodies and that is why i'm interested in it...i handled a body at a local camera shop and notice no flash compensation on the body itself, so i'll have to do it all in the flash unit....right? so here's a sample situation... f4, 35mm 1.4 AI, sb-28dx w/ omnibounce so let's say i'm in manual mode and the ambient exposure is f4@60....and i want to pop a flash with -1 compensation...i have an ombnibounce on the sb-28dx flash and it is pointed straight up....do i have to manually select the aperture in the sb-28dx or will it communicate somehow with the body automatically? if i want -1, i select -1 compensation on the flash in TTL mode? am i missing anything? should the sb-28dx work with flash compensation with an FA the same way? setting it to manual and selecting the aperture and compensation on the flash manually? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael R Freeman Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 hi there..i have several AI lenses and no AF lenses...i essentially need a body that will let me do flash compensation with AI lenses and the Sb-28dx...will the F4 do this? > Yes. I use AI/AIS lenses on my F4 with flash compensation all the time. Actually any AF body that meters with AI/AIS lenses (N90s, N8008s, F100, etc) should be able to do the same thing. i've read that the f4 is one of the most backward compatible bodies and that is why i'm interested in it...i handled a body at a local camera shop and notice no flash compensation on the body itself, so i'll have to do it all in the flash unit....right? > Yes - you set exposure compensation on the flash. so here's a sample situation... f4, 35mm 1.4 AI, sb-28dx w/ omnibounce so let's say i'm in manual mode and the ambient exposure is f4@60....and i want to pop a flash with -1 compensation...i have an ombnibounce on the sb-28dx flash and it is pointed straight up....do i have to manually select the aperture in the sb-28dx or will it communicate somehow with the body automatically? if i want -1, i select -1 compensation on the flash in TTL mode? > Just set the flash to TTL/Matrix Balanced Fill (TTL with "man/sun" symbol), set the exposure compensation on the flash to -1.0, set your manual exposure and fire away. As the flash exposure is TTL the flash doesn't need to know the lens aperture. You can set it if you want to, but all it does is show the TTL flash range at that aperture with the flash head set at 90 degrees. am i missing anything? >No. should the sb-28dx work with flash compensation with an FA the same way? setting it to manual and selecting the aperture and compensation on the flash manually? >No. You will not be able to access the flash compenstion setting when the SB-28 (or any other SB-xx) is mounted to the FA. Flash compensation is a little trickier on the FA since the meter goes dumb and the shutter speed automatically sets to 1/250 when you mount a TTL flash on the FA. There have been a couple of threads on FA/flash compensation recently - you might find it in a search of the archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcapekey.com Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 michael..thanks for the great response.... is there any manual body that allows for TTL fill flash that synchs at 250? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael R Freeman Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 You can do it with the FA - it's just not as simple or "automatic" as with the AF bodies.<P> Found the old FA/Fill flash thread - see <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00AAvi">here</a>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_ogara1 Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Russ, also I think the SB-28 being more advanced than the 24-25-26 models, has certain features that are designed to be controlled from the camera (e.g., F-5) and which the F-4 thus can't control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael R Freeman Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Rear curtain sync is the only mode that comes immediately to mind. Flash compensation is more or less the same on the SB-28(DX) as the SB-24/25/26 family (I have a 25 and 28). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawz Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Note that with an N90s, you'll need a MF-26 back if you want to control flash compensation from the body, otherwise it must be set on the flash (The two settings stack though, so you get more compensation with an MF-26 than without). The N90s does Centre-weighted balanced fill flash by default with AI/AIS lenses, I believe it's the oldest body to do that, while older bodies like the F4 need to be manually set to fill. As to the FA, not sure. I own one and a SB50DX, but really haven't played with it for flash work, as I've got more capable bodies for that (F90x, F601m) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcapekey.com Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 mike..thanks for the thread...i emailed bruce with this question...care to help out? i don't own the FA quite yet so can't test it all out...: here's what i want to accomplish...i'm essentially trying to do fill flash in two situations...the first is say in open shade where i want to separate the subject just a bit from the background without making it look obvious.... the 2nd is to do the same, but indoors... here's what i'm working with...i have an sb-28dx with an omnibounce and several manual AI lenses...i'm thinking about getting either an FA or FE2..i shoot mosty in manual using an incident meter (my other cameras are leicas for available light)... so is there a way to get that subtle little pop with an FA and sb-28? say the ambient reading is f5.6@250 with iso 400 speed film in the shade....i should therefore dial in -1..or -1.5 exposure compensation on the BODY...THEN turn on the sb-28 and put it in standard TTL, right? do i have to select the aperture i'm using on the FLASH as well, or will TTL figure it out? also, if have the omnibounce on the flash, TTL should account for the light loss and compensate right? (my reasoning for having the omnibounce is not so much to create soft light, as it is to let me get closer to my subject...around 3 feet...which using direct flash would not let me do) another related question is that does it have to be done precisely in that order ( 1.compensate on body; 2. turn flash on) for it to work? say i have the flash (already ON) on the body , then dial the compensation on the body will it then NOT pick up the negative compensation....so in essence, I have to boot up the flash with compensation dialed in? will therefore setting the ISO to 800 be the same as putting in -1? i've read that the TTL doesn't work beyond 400...likewise, the -compensation should still work even if i use the SC-17 offcamera cord right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael R Freeman Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 > I used to own an FA, but recently sold it to finance an F100. I never used it in the situations you describe (prefering the F4 for fill flash) so we are getting beyond my limited experience here. The thread I referenced seems to indicate that the FE2 might be a better choice as the ambient metering apparently doesn't go dead when a flash is turned on (which does happen on the FA). If you are using a seperate meter that's likely not a factor. so is there a way to get that subtle little pop with an FA and sb-28? say the ambient reading is f5.6@250 with iso 400 speed film in the shade....i should therefore dial in -1..or -1.5 exposure compensation on the BODY...THEN turn on the sb -28 and put it in standard TTL, right? > Sounds about right for the FA. BTW, standard TTL will be the only TTL mode you will be able to access on the SB-28 controls. do i have to select the aperture i'm using on the FLASH as well, or will TTL figure it out? >No, not necessary. Flash doesn't need to know your lens aperture for TTL as the flash exposure is measured "off the film" during exposure. The flash TTL system will "figure it out", so to speak. also, if have the omnibounce on the flash, TTL should account for the light loss and compensate right? > Yes it should. another related question is that does it have to be done precisely in that order ( 1.compensate on body; 2. turn flash on) for it to work? say i have the flash (already ON) on the body , then dial the compensation on the body will it then NOT pick up the negative compensation....so in essence, I have to boot up the flash with compensation dialed in? will therefore setting the ISO to 800 be the same as putting in -1? i've read that the TTL doesn't work beyond 400... > The sequence is really only important (and necessary) if you are using the FA to meter the ambient exposure. The flash needs to be OFF for the meter to work, so sequence is 1. Flash OFF, meter with FA, 2. Set MANUAL exposure settings, 3. Set desired exposure compensation on BODY and turn flash ON (order doesn't matter), 4. Take photo. If you are using a hand held meter you can simple leave the flash on and make your settings in whatever order you prefer. likewise, the -compensation should still work even if i use the SC-17 offcamera cord right? > Yes - the body doesn't know the flash is off camera. Hope this helps. As I said this is beyond my personal experience, but should work if I remember my FA quirks. This is sooooo much simpler on an AF body! It's probably easier to just use A mode on the flash and trick the flash to "compensate" by selecting an appropriate aperture on the flash controls (i.e. lens aperture f/5.6, flash aperture set to f/4 gives -1.0EV flash compensation). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xcapekey.com Posted June 27, 2005 Author Share Posted June 27, 2005 michael..thanks again...i'm really not a masochist :) i just prefer smaller manual cameras...i have a few jobs coming up that will require using flash and i will need to purchase a camera to do it, so i'm looking for a small metal manual camera that i would still enjoy after the job :) so i'm trying to narrow down...the FA seemed like a good body though i am also open to the F4, especially drawn to its ruggedness and it's ability to function with AI lenses (of which i have a few) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron_ng Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 I use both the FA and F4 with SB-26. With F4, the aperture setting on the flash is only for checking that the combination of film speed, aperture and flash power is suitable for the subject distance you are working with. Of course, when you point the flash head up, the distance scale disappears, so the aperture setting on the flash is useless. You can use P, S, A and M modes with flash with AF lenses or lenses with chips (P type). With AI and AIS lenses, you're limited to A and M. When you are in A mode with an AI or AIS lens, as soon as you turn on the flash, the ambient light meter does a -1.0EV. It does this to make the photo look more natural (paraphrasing from the technical manual). You might or might not like this. For daylight, I use A mode with flash, in Fill Flash Balanced TTL (Man-in-sun mode) and I set a -1.0 on the flash for filling in shadows. I also found that if you change the exposure compensation dial on the F4 body, it doesn't affect flash power. It only affects the ambient light metering. So you could say that the flash and ambient compensation can be adjusted independant of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron_ng Posted June 27, 2005 Share Posted June 27, 2005 Just to clarify, my "A mode" means aperture priority. Not Auto flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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