Leica CM or Contax T3

[paulrowe]

I recently lost my T3 and am looking to replace it. I'm seriously

considering the CM as a replacement but would be loathe to take a

backward step in regards to image quality. Can anyone with experience

of both cameras give an indication of their preference. I have had a

look at previous threads but can't find specific user opinions to

regards to the CM v T3. Advice most appreciated.

[rolfe_tessem]

I haven't owned both, I only own a T3. I have compared both, however, and would go with the

T3 again in your situation. Unfortunately, I don't think you can buy a new T3 unless you find

new old stock someplace.

[andrew_hall1]

Just look in the archives (and I'm sure these are not the only threads):

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009oeu

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00A65h&unified_p=1

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009Wu6

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0086sN

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=008O4k

[derek_stanton2]

Paul,

 

I've owned the T2 and T3, and now have the CM. I don't think image "quality" is an issue with any of these cameras. There are, though significant differences in form factor and the viewfinders, and i think those issues are more relevant.

 

The CM is really too large to be considered a 'pocket camera,' unless you're wearing a jacket or coat, or a pair of cargo pants. It's kind of an in-between camera, and the size keeps me from using it more often. During the warm months, it's a pain to carry around in the hand with the wrist strap, and if i'm going to put it on the longer neck strap, i'd just as soon carry the M7.

 

Secondly, the viewfinder, while better than the minilux's, is still horrible. The Contax is still far better. The CM's finder is small, dim, and claustrophobic.... Makes me a bit angry, especially just after i've looked through my old Rollei 35.... I'm not sure why a 'modern' Leica would have been engineered that way.

 

That said, the lens is great. I didn't make any direct comparisons, but i would have to really look hard to know which Velvia 100 slides were shot with the CM versus the 35 Lux-Asph. I'm not suggesting the Summarit is 'as good.' Just that i don't feel i need to worry about a significant drop-off. You'll have to read Erwin's write-up for any technical information, about fall-off and distortion and such. I haven't used it enough to have any opinion on that yet.

 

Exposure is also pretty much right on with the few rolls of chrome film i've shot. Velvia 100 was shot without ISO or exposure compensation, and i didn't need to bracket.

 

I had thought the Program Shift feature and the LCD on the back might be a nice feature, but in practice, i'd rather they weren't there.

 

So, i really have no "advice." If you were happy with the T3's images, get another one. It's cheaper, has a far better finder, and fits the purpose size-wise. If you don't mind carrying the CM the way it forces you to, maybe you'll want to try the CM. Subjectively, i think the CM's lens fits more into the Leica family, while the T3's is more contrasty. At least, those were my results.

[kent_demas1]

Paul,

 

I actually have both and enjoy using each one in a different way. If pressed I'd say the CM

has, as advantages, a slightly better lens, a much better flash and superb build quality. I

actually see the viewfinder thing as a bit of a push for me.

 

The T3 is extremely pocketable and has a superb lens in it's own right. I like the

ergonomics and I really like the fact that it takes filters, a big plus in my book.

 

All in all you really can't go wrong with either, I'd say the form factor is the really critical

item. If you are comfortable with the size and price of the CM, go for it, you won't be

disappointed. If you opt for the T3 I can promise you that you won't have any regrets

either.

 

My real favs in this area are the Ricoh GR21 and Nikon 28TI.... but that's for another

thread :))

 

Kent

[e_b7]

I have the CM, and other Contax and Zeiss products. You don't suffer as regards image quality with the CM. I'd decide on focal length (Which do you want?) and maybe, flash. I like the CM's hot shoe and have connected big Metz flash units to good effect. For me, the only down side to the CM is that the manual focus/AF wheel is too easy to knock out of place. Now that I'm aware of it though, it's not a problem. Kind of like being aware that my M4 takeup spool can and did, on one occasion, let go of the film leader at the beginning of the roll. !@#$%^&*

[raymond_tai]

The CM is made in Germany. When was the last time any decent defect free P&S was made

in Germany. And it is made in Germany by Leica. Buy the T3. Ahh...it is Made in Germany

so it must be good. Stick to Schnitzel.

[jeroen dommisse]

Olympus Stylus Epic x 2.

[james_symington1]

I am sure in terms of lens quality there is nothing to choose between them. What I would say is that the only reason to own such a camera is for portability issues and there the T3 wins hands down. The CM is just a bit too big to slip into trouser pockets.

 

Good luck

[raymond_tai]

Sorry about my earlier post. That was uncalled for. I work for a German company and I drive

German cars and all is well. I had suffered through loads of bad Leica electronics including:

R8 body and motor compatibility problems due to a circuit board in the R8 (I ended up

buying another R8 with an updated board); my first M6TTL went through one lithium battery

a week (common problem with initial batches) and I had to return it; my CM also had faulty

electronics and was recalled by Leica; and several Minilux's with the infamous E02 problem.

[terry_rory]

I have experience of the CM and the Contax T2 but alas not the T3. Despite my preferences I think it would make perfect sense for you to replace the T3 with another T3. I sincerely doubt that there is any absolute difference in optical quality.

 

I think the Leica warranty may hold up better given that Contax are getting out of camera manufacture. Perhaps you should clarify with Kyocera by e-mail or phone before committing. (Parts/repairs etc over the next couple of years.)

[bernard_frank]

Both are very good. Yes, the T3 is smaller and takes filters (and shade)... with an expensive

adaptor. The CM's flash is much better, and it has a hotshoe. The CM's overall built feels

more professional and it's nicer to handle.The T3 delivers a bit more contrasted images.

Both have about the same focus lag, but I'd say the CM's manual focus is better, so you

can work around lag.

 

Go for the T3 if pocketability is important to you. Go for the CM if overall feel and built is

more important. Of course the T3 is less expensive. If you can still find one new, that is.

Maybe HK Supplies in Hong-Kong has it. Check the auction site.

 

It's like, you know, Leica or Contax. Contax or Leica. Etc...

[prime lens]

Paul --

 

Don't forget the Nikon 35Ti.

 

The 35Ti's lens is extremely good, within spitting distance of anything I've used, but perhaps without as subtle a bokeh as the CM might have.

 

I worry about the CM's internal battery -- I have the impression that it has to be replaced at a factory service outlet.

 

The 35Ti has a really nice viewfinder, with 2 additional sets of accurate parallax-compensation brightlines that appear at closer focusing distances.

 

Unique among compact P&Ss, the 35Ti has full display of and contol of focused distance and selected aperture, with the shutter speed shown in an LCD readout in the viewfinder.

 

The 3D Matrix Metering is excellent, winning universal acclaim.

 

My 35Ti is available -- please drop me an e-mail if you have an interest in it.

 

-- Steve

[terry_rory]

I agree with the previous poster. The Nikon 35ti/28ti are considered to be very good cameras and if nothing else they look superb! (Yes I know looks should not matter.)<div></div>

[terry_rory]

\\\<div></div>

[terry_rory]

Not mine I am sad to say :(

[g-man1]

I was faced with the same question and ended up getting the Contax T2. I did not decide to get the CM as the shutter delay was longer than the T3 and T2, and I did not get the T3 because of its smaller viewfinder and difficult manual focussing controls. I have not found the T2's slower shutter to be a problem, nor that f2.8 is only selectable in automatic mode (given the exposure control graph of the T2, I know when it'll expose at f2.8). The lack of a hot shoe on the T2 can be overcome using remote flash triggering.

[andrew robertson]

Fuji Natura. Excellent wide angle 24mm f/1.9 lens, metal construction, exposure

compensation (only with the black model) add up to a great value.

[bernard_frank]

What do you mean "looks should not matter"? If I could, I would get a 28Ti for its looks

alone.

 

BTW, Paul, I don't want to be indiscreet, but how can one "lose" a T3? I know it's small, but

still...

 

Which makes me realize that you actually had a T3. And we're here, telling you what it is

and how it works?

[travis1]

gr1v<div></div>

[travis1]

gr1v has a snap mode at 2m which makes it THE perfect street tool. ...Has AE of course.<div></div>

[nicolas_douez]

Neither the Contax T3 nor the T2 but the original Contax T.<div></div>

[g-man1]

I bought a Contax T and am waiting for it to arrive: I was hoping to cut down on the shutter lag of the T2.

[e_b7]

If you don't want shutter lag, you might need to avoid these little Point and Shoots. If I want the shutter to trip as soon as possible, I use an M4 or other mechanical camera. Perhaps the Contax T will fill the bill though? My understanding is that it did for Cartier-Bresson.

[rico_tudor]

Contax T is not a P&S but, rather, a manual-focus RF with mandatory aperture-priory AE. Think of the mass-market '70s RF cameras like the Canonet. The leaf shutter has electronic timing, but no lag. By no lag, I mean less than my threshold of detection - call it under 10ms. On the street, you are invisible with this camera. I still like the M for total exposure control, and the construction :-)