IBM versus Apple

[william_john_smith]

Funny, I'm using a two button mouse made by Apple!

[petequinn]

Gee Ken, and here I was trying to make that statment not look as baseless as it was. How

can you have been using OS X for a decade when it hasn't been out that long?(Not even

beta) Perhaps that's just a distorted sense of time? Would that be "misinformation"? Let me

ask you this. Do you have any seperate anti-spyware or ad-blocker software running? If

you do that you would be preventing/reducing malware, but you couldn't have done that

as you haven't done anything like that for the last eight years.

 

I think everyone has stated their personal opinions fairly well. Nate has a lot of information

from which to research his purchase. I was particularly surprised by the number of

switchers to the Mac who replied. Anyway, ya gotta tell us what you buy Nate!

 

P.S. I did find it interesting that the derrogatory personally directed comments came from

the wintel camp i.e. "hysterical", "superior attitude", "not a compliment"... Really no need

for that when giving recommendations or advice. But take heart wintellers, someday your

OS will grow up and work well too!

 

<waiting for the flames>

[sl attanapola]

All the Macs I have used had the annoying one button optical one.

[daniel_taylor]

"why? I never said that one works better than the other. I think that they are pretty much the same,except the pc hardware is much faster, thanks to a free market with competition."

 

I write software for both. I can point to functions I've written that run 10x faster on the G5 than on a P4, same clock, same C code generically optimized (i.e. no CPU specific optimizations). Not everything is that dramatic, but I generally expect an optimized function in C to run 2-4x faster on my G5.

 

Of course most of the time an application is waiting on an OS API to do something, and that can put speed tests all over the map. My Mac can reboot a half dozen times before my PC has booted up once. But Win32 GDI can draw text and simple shapes to the screen far faster than Quartz. Which CPU is faster? In both cases it's not about the CPU, but the OS architecture and optimizations.

 

One person using application X may find a P4 system to be "much faster", while another person running application Y will find a G5 system to be "much faster". And in both cases it may have far less to do with the CPU than with the OS or a particular framework library used by the software in question.

 

At the end of the day either system is plenty fast enough for a photographer, given enough RAM.

 

"do you have the IT knowledge necessary to keep a PC secure and free from malware? "

"I never found it necessary over the last 8 years..."

 

Good for you. Maybe you can share the secret with all the poor souls who have paid me $40+ an hour to save their data after their PC's stopped booting because spyware infection #87 pushed the OS and CPU to the edge.

[sl attanapola]

"do you have the IT knowledge necessary to keep a PC secure and free from malware? " "I never found it necessary over the last 8 years..."

 

Good for you. Maybe you can share the secret with all the poor souls who have paid me $40+ an hour to save their data after their PC's stopped booting because spyware infection #87 pushed the OS and CPU to the edge.

 

1.)Firewall

2.)Antivirus

3.)Multiple anti-spyware programmes

4.)Watch what sites you go to(ahem not dodgy porn and warez sites)

5.)Scan all your attachments and files you download

6.)Don't use dodgy software.Some shareware comes loaded with spyware

7.)Don't use IE6

 

This will help minimize the risk but not entirely remove it.

[ken_hughes4]

"According to research from New York-based TrendWatch, 83% of graphic designers, 77% of corporate design departments and 65% of advertising agencies rely on Macintosh computers. And publishers also continue to depend on Apple's machines."

 

of course, it started on the mac, thanks to adobe, there is a strong bias towards apple in spite of the facts. I am a pro photographer and have many of the programs on my pc, they run faster and are as robust.

 

 

"Kim Vichitrananda, a desktop support engineer for 800 PCs and 250 Macs at The Dallas Morning News, acknowledges that Windows has comparable applications for the publishing market. But, she says, "those applications don't run as robustly on Windows. They're not as fast or as seamless as on the Mac. We could not replace Macs for PCs."

 

you are desperatly fishing for facts, the dallas morning news engineer? give me a break. you don't think she is biased? the facts don't support this nobody.

 

 

 

 

"We never considered the PC option, because it can't do what the Mac does in video production," he says.

 

 

yeah, the home depot guy knows more about it than all those digital animation and special effects guys out in hollywood using pc's.

 

 

 

 

"The Mac is secure, if not bulletproof,"

 

we already discussed this, and many pro apple sites, such as securemac.com support what I have said.

 

 

 

 

And no one has ever said Computerworld was pro Macintosh!

 

and none of the sites I found were anti apple....well maybe a few.

 

 

 

"How can you have been using OS X for a decade"

 

 

actually I was including os x in the virus discussion, I misunderstood.

 

 

 

"Do you have any seperate anti-spyware or ad-blocker software running? If you do that you would be preventing/reducing malware, but you couldn't have done that as you haven't done anything like that for the last eight years. "

 

didn't claim I didn't have any software, I have mcafee by the way, just that I don't need IT knowledge to prevent the problem, are you even reading the posts?

 

 

"I was particularly surprised by the number of switchers to the Mac who replied."

 

four, why would that surprise you??? what does that prove???

 

 

 

P.S. I did find it interesting that the derrogatory personally directed comments came from the wintel camp

 

really? here is a qoute from you....

 

"Trust me, you sounded like an IT geek"

 

 

then there is this....(not you)

 

"but then again most Windoze users are, no big deal."

 

 

 

"hysterical" "not a compliment"

 

comments made by others are not my responsibility.

 

 

"superior attitude",

 

how can describing windows users as a bunch of idiots banging away hopelessly on their computers be described as anything other than insulting? you guys also fired the first shot, so there!

 

 

 

But take heart wintellers, someday your OS will grow up and work well too!

 

wow, insulting and condescending to the end, I hope you are happy in your world....

[mark_houlder2]

I know that Ken's 'decade' quote was not necessarily about OSX but about Macs in general, however he was talking about how intuitive they are to a new user in that context - and that comes down to the software and the GUI rather than the hardware. OSX is new - it may have a similar look and feel to the previous Mac OS's but underneath it's completely new (based on BSD - one of the most stable and mature OS's out there). That was my point.

 

The rest of Ken's assertions in that post I largely agree with - as I mentioned, I went down the PC route because it suits me better. However, I still think that if the overriding reason you're getting a computer is for imaging, a Mac would be the best choice. They're designed for use with media editing, whereas windows is a jack-of-all-trades. If you're specialising in one task, buy the tool that's specific to that task. Just my opinion.

 

BTW, I said I agree with Ken's assertions - with one exception. Yes, the main reason that viruses affect windows more is because there are more windows computers out there, but it's not the only reason. OSX is intrinsically more secure than windows has ever been. The fact is that it's much harder to write a virus which will do serious damage to an OSX box (notice I didn't say Mac box) than to a windows one, not because windows machines are more numerous or because people like to target them, but because windows IS NOT as secure. It just isn't. The security infrastructure of windows is a joke - it's a wide open model with numerous hacks and patches to try and cover those holes. OSX has an excellent security model (I'm not saying it's perfect, but it's 100x better than windows). BSD (and unix in general) is designed with security in mind, windows (until now) has not been. Longhorn/Vista (should it ever appear!) should rectify this to a large extent, as it's security/permissions model is copied largely from the unix-style model.

 

Thats not to say that all OSX machines are more secure than all windows ones, but it's not a level playing field. People target windows with viruses because of its popularity - but they're successful with those viruses because windows is not fundamentally a secure OS. If OSX had as many machines out there as windows, there may be just as many viruses, but not as many of them would do as much damage.

 

Having said all THAT - I still bought a PC :)

[sl attanapola]

Wow! This is like a Canon vs Nikon debate but more with more insults...!

 

Cool down people!

[mark_houlder2]

I love a good argument :)

 

"yeah, the home depot guy knows more about it than all those digital animation and special effects guys out in hollywood using pc's."

 

Quite correct - they all use linux clusters on banks of dozens or hundreds of (relatively) cheap x86 machines :)

 

I bet Nate is regretting posting this question... Nate - couldn't you just spend the money on a holiday instead? ;)

[michael_chmilar]

IBM doesn't make PC's at all anymore. No laptops, desktops, or workstations. They sold the whole division to Lenovo in May, 2005.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Peter; the DOS program I use rips/converts a few weird files we print at odd times. The program wont run under a command line in say Win2000 or XP; but it does in win98SE or pure dos. The program was written before windows; and makes direct calls to the video; such that only older VGA cards work; or some IBM integrated video variants. The program is not worth rewritting; it is vendor specfic for our printers; who abandoned support long ago. Thus we run the rip under a command line in win98se or in pure dos. In pure dos session it runs a tad quicker; and the entire program works. In win98se in a command line only parts work; which is usually ok. One may have 30 files with bload and the DOS 3.0Ghz session will pop/convert them in a few minutes. The printers first CPU was a 386 at 25Mhz; this would take say a couple of hours; later we went to a 486-50Mhz; then a P6 200Mhz; then a Pii 333Mhz. The quicker CPU only helps with converting; the old 486 was quick enough for the print engines. If I could get my thrift store find; a SE/30 to work; I really wouldnt want to wait an afternoon; compared to using the 3ghz PC. The matra of always updating gets old. Some of us us known old programs under DOS sessions or command lines; instead of getting a new software package that has a monthly fee to pay for support. The older software sometimes will open up older TIFF variants; long abandoned by newer software.

[kelly_flanigan1]

In printing; one often gets old and oddball inputs. This maybe images on 5 1/4 floppy; jazz drives; maybe so unknown text on cassttes. One chap calls a modern data CD "microfilm" . A single photographer can use the latest flash card. A printer might get any of the zoo of cards; maybe a 2meg one from an old Casio. The 100 meg zip is still common in some industries; the 250 variant abit more odd. Then their is the zoo of backup tapes; which I fiddle with not much. <BR><BR>

[pbass_wil]

Check out both perspectives:

 

Year after year Apple tops the industry in owner satisfaction.

 

Year after year Wintel boxes beat Macs in CPU power and disk storage at a given purchase price.

 

Year after year PC owners suffer down time, headaches and file corruption due to viruses and worms.

 

Apple has a history of making fundamental changes to its hardware or OS that burdon developers, slow down the flow of new software features, and sometimes render old equipment obsolete.

 

These days Macs seem to just _work_. There are, to be sure, occasional glitches and bugs that sometimes inconvenience Apple users; but these are indisputably rarer than on Windows. There are countless reports of Macs running for months and months without rebooting.

 

If your job requires you to use specific/custom business software, Windows may be your only option. (Although to be fair, its surprising how easy it's getting for a Mac to blend in to a PC environment, to network-up and share files and printers).

 

There's an unceasing stream of new ideas coming out of Apple, and almost every year you can get new and innovative OS features. (Although to be fair, Windows has improved a _lot_ in the last decade, and recent versions have their share of excellent and useful features. And M.S. doesn't try to get $125 out of you for every year's OS version update!)

 

Apples founder and CEO Steve Jobs has a penchant for deciding how he thinks computing should be done, and then imposing his vision on his captive Mac user base. E.g: floppy disks were unilaterally declared obselete on Macs, years before Wintel Machines started showing up without them. E.g.2:Only after years of nagging by the Mac community, has he given in and released a multi-button mouse with scrolling capability. (Although it has long been possible to use any 3rd party mouse with Macs, including M.S.'s rodents.)

 

------------------- <?))))><

 

I could go on, but my point is that there are pluses and minuses to each platform.

 

Either PC or Mac can do what you need it to do, including run M.S. Office, Photoshop and many other excellent graphics/photo related apps (some exlusive to each OS, some available for both). For general purpose computing, there are excellent browser and email apps on both sides. Take note of the above generalizations, and make a choice based on what's most important to you! Best of luck.

 

Incidentally Nate, you can run Linux on either platform. (Each has it's separate distributions; Yellow Dog is the biggest dist. for Macs.)

 

Peter Wilson

[petequinn]

Yeah, Nate is probably just shakin his head...But Mark hit what we have all been trying to

say. Buy what tool will work best for your needs. The majority of my work these days is

image editing so the Mac is my machine. Still runs the mail and standard office apps I need

but for imaging, I think it is just a better platform. Like the comment about running DOS

for printing, excellent. If it works, well for you great. If I were doing siesmic or weather

modeling, then a SGI or SPARC box. If you need to pound nails, well...never mind.

 

And yes Ken, I AM quite happy in my world. The sky is a beautiful shade of blue...not

unlike the blue screen of death so well know to users of a certain operating system.

 

Well, I think we've about beat this in the ground... Ken, you are a worthy opponent and I

have enjoyed our exchange. I look forward to the next topic upon which we find ourselves

on differing sides. Ciao and good luck Nate!

[ken_hughes4]

good night everyone....and you know if you get cold you can always warm yourself by the burning batteries of an apple laptop! ;)

[david_f._stein]

As many time as these threads appear on the Internet, besides the hideous look of many Windows applications, no one mentions one of the major Mac advantages - superior propioception. While OS X and USB mice are not quite up to the superb quality of the ABD mouse, I feel sad for corporate offices across the world where people struggle with the basic act of positioning the cursor. I imagine Windows has improved, but I still see differences. For those who knew how to use it, which many of the gifted contributors to this thread could, the OS 9 desktop and last finder was/is one of the most powerful information formats ever devised. It's the difference between doing 10 or 12 things "almost simultaneously" and doing things one at a time. OS X is getting better in this regard. When I can, I still work with an ABD optical mouse (down to my last one) -there is nothing better. ENJOY YOUR PLATFORM OF CHOICE.

[._._z]

Scott's (literally) hysterical anti-Apple screeds are as amusing as they are ill-informed.

Kudos once again!

[patricklavoie]

Chocolate cake or Cheese cake, what's the best?

Same old questions! If all your friend have a PC, buy one. If they all have Mac, well buy a Mac!

Why fight the evidence! You like LINUX, and you like to try other PC only software....what your

question then? If you want to know what the standard? theres is none! CS2 on Mac or PC is

the same, color calibration is the same, color profile for printer....the same. How much are

you ready to spend, that is the questions, ho and please whatever you buy, please buy a

decent LCD or CRT screen to go with it, laptop screen are so bad for color correction.

[nathan_smith7]

Macs rule on so many levels, it's a joke that these threads exist.