zeos_386sx Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 A thread at the Leica rangefindgerforum questioned whether a vertical shutter would be necessary for the digital M. I question whether a vertical shutter would involve changing the distance of the rangefinder from the lens mount. If that happened then some old Leica products would not work with the digital M - like lenses with goggles and the Viso's. Can you put a vertical shutter between the back of an M lense and a CCD/CMOS without having to raise the rangefinder? The Epson RD1 is .35" taller than an M7. Does anyone know if that height difference between the cameras translates into a difference between lens-mounts and rangefinders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_elwing Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 You are probably right. It would be a shame. Some vertical shutters, however, such as that on Contax I,II,III & their post-war decendants were not particularly tall. If Leica went for the M7 height, that would rule out the Visoflex II with normal pentaprism anyway. Perhaps they will come up with a few updated accessories that can also be used on film cameras??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael_b._elmer Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Wasn't the CL's shutter vertical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_richardson Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 You can make a metal horizontal shutter as well...the Canon F1 has one, and it goes up to 1/2000th... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_richardson Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Oh wow, I forgot the most obvious answer! The Hexar RF -- it has a vertical shutter that travels at 1/4000th, AND a motor, and it is the exact same size as an M camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew robertson Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I wonder if it'll come with a trained unicorn, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeos_386sx Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 The Leica MP/M4/M2/M3's are all 3.03"(38mm) tall. If the viso's and goggle-lenses will not work on the M7 at .1" (2.54mm) taller and the RD1 is .45" (11.43mm) taller than any of them then I guess the viso and goggle users who buy digital M's will be out of luck - Unless Leica goes with a horizontal shutter. Is that possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_elwing Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Goggles work on M7, so does Visoflex 3; no problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin_elliott Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 I believe the Visoflex 3 worked on the M5 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw_finney Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Any shutter will work, the sensor stores the image which is read out when the shutter closes. For exposures much longer than the readout time a shutter isn't required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeos_386sx Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 The posters at rangefinderforum seem to agree with Mr. Finney's "Any shutter will work". The following are quotes from LFI by the last CEOs of Leica. I read these to support backward compatability. "We thought it reasonable to inform M customers sooner, rather than later, that the Msystem - lenses, cameras and ACCESSORIES - remains capable of development, offering further alternatives beyond analogue technology - namely digital technology." - HANNS-PETER COHN "We want to safeguard our customers?investments." - Ralf Coenen "People have different ways of getting into Leica. But to provide a half-hearted introductory tool is a bad idea. And just how does one trim down the component list of a purist product like the Leica M? By replacing the cloth shutter with a standard? By using an off-the-rack magnesium body rather than milling it from a solid metal block? Indeed, there are many possibilities, but in the end we wouldn?t really be looking at a real Leica." - Ralf Coenen I realize that both of those gentlemen are doing other things now. However, it seems possible to me that given the above statements we might be looking at a horizontal shutter for the digital M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed_schwartzreich Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Viso's work on the R-D1, but only with the vertical finder. The Viso II's "M" arm works. Of course one has to mask down the view, due to the 2/3 sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiswick_john Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 No digital M should be without a mechanical cloth horizontal shutter. While most people are concerned by the characteristics of Leica lenses and the qualities of various films and developers - it is often overlooked that the nature of the shutter contributes in no small way to the way a Leica photograph looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socke Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 Zeos, thanks for the quotes! I'm 100% with both you quoted, a cheaper Leica probably made in a low wages country is not the same. Some of the reactions to the ZI made at Cosina prove that reasoning beyond doubt. Why do we own or want a Leica M? Because it is Leica M and not anything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fran__ois_p._weill Posted June 22, 2005 Share Posted June 22, 2005 >> No digital M should be without a mechanical cloth horizontal shutter. While most people are concerned by the characteristics of Leica lenses and the qualities of various films and developers - it is often overlooked that the nature of the shutter contributes in no small way to the way a Leica photograph looks. << That's undoubtly true: this why you'll never see a Leica M flash picture taken with a higher synch speed than 1/50th of a second... Cloth shutters were the best technology when the first M was studied... Things have a bit changed since them, but don't tell them at Solms, they just slept since then... François P. WEILL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeos_386sx Posted June 22, 2005 Author Share Posted June 22, 2005 Don't anticipate a cloth shutter on the new digital M. CEO Cohn made it clear in an interview that Leica would be using a blade shutter. The only question is which way it will travel - vertically or horizontally. A horizontal blade shutter would allow for current camera dimensions and, I assume, a much faster flash sync. It could also be very fast (like the horizontal, titanium blade used on the Canon high speed F1 - 14fps). However, the digital M would probably need an auxilliary power pack to hit speeds like that and use low resolutions. If the CCD is APS sized then the shutter can be smaller than the full-frame blade used on the Canon F1. Interesting possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johns1 Posted June 23, 2005 Share Posted June 23, 2005 Digital M? We should live so long . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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