Another Shen-Hao query

[alex_z]

I know, this is rather beaten horse, but still cannot clear up my mind

regarding this camera (as my choice for my first 4x5 field camera).

The general opinion about ShenHao 4x5 seems to build up a very

positive concensus (as long as reading online reviews and opinions,

including many of these here on APUG), however there are few I

encountered that raised questions:

One of LF experienced users who had bought a Shen-Hao 4x5 heavily

complained really struggling to have camera's standards aligned prior

to a shoot, thus making almost impossible to use camera movements.

Another opinion I've heard from another experienced LF shooter, that

the camera itself is made far from the standards of good 4x5 field

folders as long as design or finishing-wise.

I would like to gather a statistics of experienced LF shooters who

also use Shen-Hao: Do you also feel the camera's finish isn't up to a

standards of other well accepted 4x5 field folders ? (such as Wista,

for instance or similar ?) Any comments regarding its actual

operability (standards alignment and any other issues ?)

 

I have no any prior experience with LF and field cameras in particular

so have no any references to compare with, this is why I trust the

educated opinions of experienced LF APUGers.

 

Thanks in advance, Alex

[paul_owen]

Alex ... WHAT ARE YOU DOING? You are opening one big can of worms with this question :) There are those (few) people who rave about Shen Hao cameras and will NOT have a bad word said against them - and there are others (me!) who absolutely loathe them! So, at the end of the day, you will get a real split camp here - very few in the middle ground as you either love or hate Shen Hao! I'll bide my time before I chip in!! GOOD LUCK!

[jim_rhoades]

Interesting. "Struggling to have camera's standards aligned prior to shoot..." A wood field camera with a very heavy lens or crunched up with a wide angle or cranked all the way out will have problems keeping the standards aligned. You have to tighten them down alot more under these conditions. This is a good reason to have bag bellows for a wide, less stress on the standards. You can buy a gear driven technical camera or a high end monorail. The cost will be five to ten times that of the Shen Hao. This is the reason there are Linhof's, Sinar, Arca-Swiss etc. You get what you pay for. $600. vs. $6,000.

[mikem77]

I have a Shen Hao, but I only have a year experience with LF. The only other LF camera I've used is a Calumet CC400 monorail. But since you are asking for statistics...

 

The Shen-Hao performs exactly how I would expect a wooden field camera to perform and I've experienced no functional problems whatsoever. I compared it with the Tachihara in person when I visited Badger Graphic's warehouse. The Shen-Hao felt hefty and sturdy compared to the Tachihara. The Tachihara had a "flashier" finish and maybe a bit more streamlined, however I preferred the look of the Shen Hao. For me, the Shen offered a better value (more movements, cheap bag bellows, etc).

 

After using it for 9 months, I am quite pleased with the camera. However I can see where the fit and finish _could_ be better in a more expensive camera. For example, some things (like the ground glass retaining clips) are screwed directly into the wood. If I were changing my ground glass frequently, these holes might become worn and stripped. I imagine that a finer camera might use bolts and countersunk nuts. And I ounce banged one standard into the other and a very tiny piece of finish chipped off. I might expect a $3000 camera to offer a finer finish that is more resilient. I also might expect the hardware on a higher-end camera to be of finer quality with more precision. For example, the focus gear train works fine but could be smoother. But because I've never handled an Ebony, Walker, or Gandolfi, I am only speculating.

 

But for $600 I am quite happy. Badger Graphic offers very good service.

 

Paul, just curious, why do you "absolutely loath" the Shen-Hao? In another forum, there is a fellow who is always talking trash about the camera. He then revealed to me that he has never used or seen one in person!

[scott_davis5]

As a Shen-Hao user, I have not found the problem of aligning the standards to be overwhelming. I have had architectural work published in major periodicals shot with the Shen Hao. I have had no issues with the quality of the finish and fit- I've owned the camera for several years now, taken it on the road with me and gone hiking with it, as well as used it on location shoots for architecture and in the studio, and it still has all the original parts, in the same degree of fine tune that they were in when I bought it.

 

Do I wish the camera movements were easier to zero? Yes (well, sorta- only the rear standard tilts are dodgy. Otherwise, everything is easy). Is it a problem I can't work around? No. My one major whine is that it is limited to about 14" of bellows extension, but that's a common problem across many cameras in its class.

 

I know some people have had issues with their individual cameras, but saying that the entire line is crap is like saying that all Mazdas must be crap because I had a bad one. It is my understanding from having heard stories about people who had problem cameras and tried to resolve those problems that they received excellent and speedy customer service. Given how cheap the camera is in dollars, I would recommend that you call up Midwest Photo or Badger Graphics or The View Camera Store (all North American retailers for the camera), put one on your credit card, and give it a try. They all have good return priviledges and give first rate customer service. See for yourself if you think the quality is good enough for you.

[paul_owen]

In reply to Mike's question about my loathing the Shen Hao! - without getting into another long and drawn out "battle" with Shen Hao users, I simply don't rate the Shen Hao 5x4 HZX at all - in fact I think its a waste of money. Reason - poor build quality, poor materials and a "cheap BUT nasty" feel to it! On paper it seems to good to be true -the extensive movements available (especially on the rear)and the option of interchangeable bellows are very appealing but the "specs" don't materialise when you see/use the camera in the flesh. I would rather spend a bit more on something along the lines of a Wista than waste my cash on a Shen Hao. I have been fortunate/unfortunate to use a HZX45 and my opinion, based on my own experiences, is simply as I outlined above. Having said that the Shen Hao roll film backs (6x17 and 6x12)are very well made, hold the film very flat without spacing problems between the frames, granted they are hefty but they are excellent value for money - so I'm not "anti Shen Hao", just don't rate their 5x4 camera!

[pat bunn]

I am a rank beginner in LF and bought a Shen Hao this spring. I had a $125 Calumet that I had used testing and playing around. It did a good job and I made some nice photographs, but is was not portable. It was rigid and easy to use.

 

I wanted a field camera to do landscapes. The Shen Hao was no fun for me. It was hard to get anything stable. Mine ended up having serious light leaks and Midwest asked me to return it. I had them send me a Tachihara 4 x 5 and also a Toyo 4x5 CF to examine and found both to be much better than the Shen Hao with respect to rigidity. I ended up in getting the Tachihara, probably because of looks even though it has a bit better movements. I am very satisfied with my choice and in retrospect, the Shen Hao was not in either of the other two cameras class. This is the opinion of a beginner in LF.

[amund_aaeng]

Paul, there must have or still are variations in Shen-Haos QC, as I have no problems whatsoever with mine, all movments positive and smooth and the finish is very nice. All knobs captive, the camera gives a sturdy impression.

[dean_tomasula1]

Alex,

 

Paul Owen is correct. There are those that hate the Shen-Hao (him) and those that love them (me).

 

(Hi Paul. How are you?)

 

While the Shen-Hao is not a perfect camera and its build quality is not comparable to a $5,000 model like an Ebony or a Canham, it is a perfectly useable camera that is reasonably well built and will enable you to make some great photos.

 

I think for a first camera it is the perfect choice. It has a lot of movements (more than you'll need if you shoot landscapes), it's inexpensive and it offers a lot of accessories like Pano backs and a bag bellows (which are cheap too).

 

Now, Paul will (and always does) disagree with me. Unfortunately the decision is up to you. Find a friend who has one and give it a try, or see if you can find a dealer that will let you try one out for yourself.

[paul_owen]

For once I agree with Dean! Find someone who stocks a wide range of cameras and go and find out for yourself what suits you. Check out the range of movements on offer, the weight, the ease of use, quality of finish, rigidity at full extension and how it feels for you! Then you will have personal experience as to what may or may not suit you. If you haven't got a dealer near you then you're stuck with us lot and our (biased) opinions !

[dean_tomasula1]

Amen, brother!

[mikem77]

Hi Paul,

 

When did you acquire and evaluate the Shen-Hao and where did you acquire it from?

 

Thanks,

Mike

[brian_ellis16]

I think the Shen Hao is a good buy for $600. To me the only two real downsides to the Shen Hao (as long as you aren't expecting fit and finish like an Ebony or precision like a Linhof) are the short 12 inch bellows and the 6+ lbs weight (I know the bellows can be extended to 14 inches with some front base and axis tilt gyrations but I don't like gyrations and using those movements to gain extension limits their use for their intended purpose). For someone who plans to do some hiking I think the Tachihara is a better choice, lighter, at least as well built, one inch longer bellows (making it feasible to use a 300mm normal lens), and a bellows flexible enough to allow use of a 65mm lens without needing a bag bellows. The counter-arguments for the Shen Hao are more movements and availability of a bag bellows plus weight isn't critical if you don't plan to hike any long distances. The counter-counter arguments are that the extra movements aren't necessary for most purposes and the Tachihara's lack of a bag bellows is an advantage since it can take a 65mm lens without the need to buy a bag bellows and haul it around).

 

And so it goes. Take your pick but don't agonize over the decision. Buy something and start learning and enjoying it. If you end up liking large format photography and stick with it for say five years it's highly unlikely that your first camera will be your last anyhow.

[john lehman, college alask]

<p>My user notes on the Shen Hao are at <a href="http://johnandlisa.us/john/shenhao-notes.html">http://johnandlisa.us/john/shenhao-notes.html</a>. My basic conclusion is that the price is right; if I were a professional who made money from my LF photography I might think otherwise.</p>

[johnmarkpainter]

<<I have no any prior experience with LF>>

 

Then get the Shen Hao and ONE LENS.

[paul_owen]

Hi Mike. I organise LF workshops in the UK and had a Shen Hao as part of a large consignment of demo cameras and equipment. It was brand new, straight from the box. I used it (on and off, well more "off"!)over a period of about 2 weeks and it was used by participants on the workshop too.

[chris_coleman_smith1]

Well to me it sounds like some fun for not too much money, i'm thinking of getting

something bigger than my Super Tech for some real Large Format, not just 6x9 malarky.

My question being, does anyone know if there's a UK or Europe Distributor?

 

I fear the international shipping of expensive things, (i'm a paranoid kind of guy...)

 

Thanks

[steve daniels]

My opinion: They're all good. With all manufacturers you occasionally get a bad one. It all comes down to what works for you. Solid photo technique will resolve many camera problems.

 

I happen to like my Shen Hao (a wide angle non-folding camera), but I also like Ebony, Walker, Tachihara, and many others.

 

I had a Tachihara that happened to be bent right out of the box. In the early '80's there was not much customer service from the manufacturers, and their attitude was "Tough S___". I used it, although the focus rail would bind about half way out.

 

I used an Ebony and loved it, but it was borrowed, so when I returned it, I had an opportunity to purchase the Shen Hao. I tried it, and it served all of my needs perfectly.

 

There are problems with the Shen Hao. The biggest one is the dim ground glass, but that is an easy fix. There are many aftermarket alternatives that will take care of this problem, and most Shen Hao users do so quickly.

 

I had a metal part break about a year ago. 1 Email to China with a picture of the part attached got me 2 replacement parts within a week. Not only did it fix the problem, but I have a spare in case it happens again. THAT's customer servive.

 

So, try as many as you can find, see which one you like best (controls easy for you to operate and in the right place, etc.) and go for it.

 

Most of all, have fun and take good pictures.

 

(By the way, there is one wooden field camera that I don't care for, but it hasn't been mentioned in this thread. Some people likes it, and that's OK for them.)

[mikem77]

The glass that came with my Shen-Hao camera performed nearly exactly the same as an aftermarket SatinSnow glass that I bought. I left the original glass after spending an afternoon comparing these two screens. Maybe Shen-Hao upgraded the glass they use?

 

My only other reference point is the Fresnel installed in my Calumet monorail. The fresnel is definitely brighter, but I prefer focusing on the dimmer non-fresnel glass.

 

Eventually I will upgrade to a Maxwell or other micro-fresnel, but the glass that comes with the Shen is usable and easy to focus.

 

Steve, can you tell me which part broke so I exercise a bit more caution with it?

[steve daniels]

Mike,

 

Shen Hao may have changed their standard GG, and that's a good thing. I use a Maxwell Hi-Lux screen with 65 and 90mm lenses, and it is now bright to the edges with no hotspot.

 

As for the broken part, my wife tells me I tighten everything too much. I overtightened the rise knob on my rear standard too much (or too hard too many times) and broke the shaft off where it connects to the camera body. There is a stainless steel strip which screws to the body that the shaft is welded to, and I snapped it off. Zhang Fuming sent me 2 replacement parts. He also said that if I had problems repairing it, I could send the camera to him and he would do it. It took 5 minutes, and the camera is like new.

 

He did not charge anything for the parts.

[j_robinson2]

It is made in China. The Chinese have openly threatened use of Nuclear weapons against the US.

 

Boycott anything Chinese.

[steve daniels]

Not all Chinese people are bad. I doubt that the camera manufacturers of Shanghai are much of a threat to the U.S.

 

But then again, those woodworkers and bellows makers COULD possibly be retrained to make nuclear weapons...

 

Let's stick to photography here.

[mikem77]

There is a Chinese proverb that says something along the lines of "Welcome what you cannot avoid".

[paul_owen]

Boycott the Chinese? NEVER! I couldn't survive without crispy beef and noodles!

[sandy_king]

If you don't want to buy a Shen-Hao because you don't like China or the Chinese that

is your business.

 

But anyone who claims that Shen-Hao cameras are junk is either not very familar with

view cameras or reached some unjustified conclusions based on limited experience

with one of the cameras.

 

I have a 5X7 Shen-Hao and it is one of the best-made wooden field view cameras I

have ever seen. Extremely rigid and sturdy and lots of movements and bellows draw.

The woodwork is first class, as is the titanium metal hardward. Not quite as well made

as Ebony, ok, but still easily in the class of Deardorff, Wisner, which I have also owned

in the past. I also own at this time two of Keith Canham's cameras, a 7X17 and

12X20, and have worked with the Tachihara and Gandolfi, so I am not just expressing

an opinion about the quality of the Shen-Hao off the top of my head. Overall I would

have to say that I prefer the innovative design, long bellows draw and light weight of

the wood Canham cameras over most others, but it is hard to beat the Shen-Hao for

value.

 

Sandy