How much to charge for a digital M e/w FF sensor?

[andyaitken]

We based the survey on a $5,000 digital M. Even my math/s isn't that bad thankyouverymuch.

[terence_mahoney1]

Leica have basically held to the same overall design since 1954 and yet they are in dire financial straits. They aren't going to see any profits from the DMR or M digital until their R&D expenditure has been recuperated, and I daresay that amounts to a wee bit more than $100K American. Even if their strategy w. respect to the digitals is simply to stay in the row and hope to make a profit from lenses, there is still a limit to how much they can stand to lose on these digital platforms. I believe Leica know they don't have enough funds for a second shot if the first fails, but OTOH they also know they can count to a certain extent upon fierce customer loyalty and apologism to let them slide by with a less specified offering than the other makers. It's safe to say Leica knows the field upon which they're playing, and a few dozen squawking crows on the line isn't likely to deafen them to the counsel of their major stockists and their wealthy repeat customers.

[andyaitken]

Yeah, I'm sure, but it was you who suggested we were a piddlin' insignificant bunch. $100,000 isn't insignificant to anyone other than perhaps Bill Gates.

[simon_dai]

If Leica will only build less than 20 MD cameras ... now they'll become real collectibles. I'm in!

[harvey_edelstein1]

I remember that the president had to withdraw Harriet Miers nomination and the Dubai ports deal because of a few internet posts. As the great Bob Grant used to say "your influence counts, use it".

 

Poll sample are always very small comparred to the total universe of interested people. The strength of sentiment for a rangefinder to have the same coverage as the lens and viewfinder for ease of use alone makes it worth doing, the other reasons for FF are well known to anyone who reads the literature on the subject. When spending $6,000 one expects more than a pretty face.

[nasmformyzombie]

<i>Andrew Robertson , apr 07, 2006; 01:47 a.m.<br>

"On what authority is the new digital M to be priced at $5000?" <br>

<b>Leica's PR folks actually came out and said it.<br><br></i></b>

Where? Show me. Aagin, the M7/MP film cameras are selling for $3495. Does anyone seriously believe this $5000 number?????

[x-ray]

In a current article in the LHSA magazine a Leica official working on the M digital states the M digital will not exceed $5000 US. Find a copy of the magazine and read it.

 

 

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045

[terence_mahoney1]

As someone who owns and uses the most recent iteration of FF, the 5D, I can attest to there being some nasty issues as yet unresolved (no pun intended) in terms of vignetting and overall performance toward the outer regions of the frame, progressively worse with shorter focal-length lenses. And there is significantly more distance between the sensor and rear-element with the 5D than there would be with the M digital. So Leica's options are 1. produce a FF camera whose corner performance falls short of the already problematic FF DSLR's, 2. delay offering a digital body for M users indefinitely until FF corner performance with M lenses could be on a par with film and hope foolishly that enough people will buy film Leicas at their current bloated prices to keep the company afloat <i>and</i> finance continued development of digital, or 3. produce a crop-factored M digital now, with first-class performance, along with one or two new and profitable lenses designed to recapture the wide-angle territory lost to the crop factor.

[andy middleton]

the price will not be below 5K, if it was Leica would not develop it.simple.my guess is it will

be between 5 and 7k and once the initial orders are shipped those buyers will realise that

they have been the victims of nostalgia.I will continue with the m6 for film but surely the

most attractive digital route has to be canon.

[anthony_brookes5]

Oh dear ther is some very confused thinking here. The cost of something has no bearing on its price save that if you continue selling things below cost you will go bust. The cost of making a CD including all music right artists fees etc is about $1 but it is sold for $10. The cost of making marketing and distributing an automobile is abot 75% of its price. There are products sold with even smaller margins. It just shows cost is irrelevant. Leica should sell their M digital for the maximum price they can to absorb planned production.

[joseph_wisniewski]

Harvey - ""No film - no winder lever, gears, exposure counter and rewind knob"

 

You still need the winder lever to cock the shutter, and an even bigger, more complex exposure counter, because a single disc counter is fine for 36 exposures on a roll, but not for 500 exposures on a CF card.

 

"Fancy FF Dslr have come down in price and thats very good ... But there are many things that the Canon 5D has that we would not have on a digital M ... So, how much should a less mechanical digital M cost? What is your estimate?"

 

As Terrence pointed out, the 5D sensor isn't up to the task of a FF DSLR, let alone a FF rangefinder with exit pupils much closer to the sensor. Even the offset microlens technique Kodak uses for the Modul-R sensor isn't much good with rangefinder lenses 28mm or wider. "Fixing" that isn't a trivial R&D or production cost. Then factor in that Canon makes 5D in quantities ten times (or maybe a hundred times) larger than Leica, and Canon benefits from the economy of making their own sensors in house, and you realize the question isn't "how much less", but "how much more" should a digital M cost.

 

Terrence - "subtract perhaps 15% of the sub-total, to account for it being a single integrated unit rather than an add-on"

 

Or add perhaps 50% to account for it being reduced from something that weighs 800g and attaches to a camera, to something that has to live inside a 500g camera without substantially increasing the weight. Hasselblad/Imacon/Kodak hasn't ever built electronics like that, they've got a bit of catching up to do to match Canon or Nikon.