Questions about B&W printing

[bdb]

I posted a question last night about a good inkjet printer for B&W work at home. From all of the very

helpful replies I discovered I have a lot to learn about B&W digital printing.

 

Many recommended the Epson r220 with the MIS UT-R2 inks. Paul Roark has created some ICC profiles

for this printer/ink combination and various papers. However, if I understand correctly (which I'm not sure

I do at all), with this setup I will be printing in greyscale and thus won't be able to print toned B&W prints.

 

I typically use a color-managed (Adobe RGB) workflow in Photoshop CS2, and I almost always tone my

B&W images before printing. Is there a printer/ink combo that would permit me to keep working in this

way? I admit I am somewhat daunted by the prospect of using special curves and RIP software to produce

the toning. I'm also concerned that I'll lose control over the toning process this way, as I would be limited

by the available tone curves for whatever ink/paper combo I use (I don't currently have the technical

expertise to make them myself).

 

However, if this is the best way to go about it, I am open to learning.

 

I'm not so interested in "black-only" printing for the same reasons mentioned above. So does that mean

the Epson r220 with the MIS inkset is not a good combo for me? Perhaps the Epson 1280 or refurbished

2200 would be better?

 

If you could help me to understand this better, or point me towards a website or book with good basic

information on digital B&W printing, I'd be very grateful.

 

Thanks again,

Chris

[mr._smith]

Guess it's time you belong to this group. Paul Roark may answer your question.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/messages

[mike butler]

Chris,

 

I've been following your two threads with great interest because I think I'm in the same

boat as you.

 

What I've been thinking about doing is having a series of variously toned and untoned/

neutral b&w photos made using an Epson K3 printer and Epson/piezo printer at a place

like West Coast Imaging.

 

I suspect the piezo (similar in concept to the ultratone system), would produce better

classic neutral and warm-tone b&w, but if the K3 gets me somewhere in the "pretty damn

good" ballpark--I think that will tell me which printer to buy for home use.

 

It doesn't seem practical to me to switch around between neutral, warmtone, and color

inksets. I also like to skew some photos toward blue or yellow, which may be more difficult

(or not possible--someone correct me if I'm wrong, please) with grayscale.

 

Best of luck,

[bdb]

Hi Mike,

 

It definitely does sound like we're in the same boat. I'm pretty sure I don't want to give up

the ability to use different colors in the toning process. Are the Epson r2400 and 4800 the

only printers out there that can produce high-quality "classic" B&W prints and also color-

toned B&W prints without changing the cartridges?

 

If so, I guess I better start saving. Epson sells the refurbished r2400 for $700, though it's

not available now. That's within dreaming distance, but still out of reach.

 

Thanks,

Chris

[bobmichaels]

Chris / Mike: I think you may be overanalyizing and overcomplicating a variety of simple processes that work very well for 99% of us. Any of the MIS variable tone inksets allow you to shift between a coolish or warmish toned print. You can even do that with the standard Epson 2400 driver. Now if you want a yellow or blue toned b&w print, you're on your own.

 

Ultimately you will probably find that the mainstream view of working on b&w images in a greyscale file rather than RGB is much simpler and more rewarding. You will also learn that the paper you use has an impact on the print tonality. I can vary the tonality of a BO print substantially.

 

There certainly is nothing wrong with developing your own style. But I would encourage you to become established in some generally accepted processes and workflows first, then use that as a basis to strike out from there.

 

If you haven't read, and comprehended, ALL of Clayton Jones series of articles, I would encourage you to do so. I've known Clayton for a long time and have some of his prints. He's a straight shooter. I don't do things exactly his way. But if I was starting over tomorrow, I would use them. Ditto for Paul Roark.

[mike butler]

Bob,

 

Thanks a lot for your reply. Being an old wet darkroom/selenium tone guy, I realize that I

may be going a little overboard on toning in PS. I think I'll get a 220 and try Clayton's variable

tone blend. How can you go wrong for $150 or so! If nothing else, I can use it to print out a

map or customize a DVD.

[bdb]

I suppose I can start there as well, and try to squeeze a bit more quality out of my Canon

MP800 for the colorized B&W images. Still open for other suggestions, though, if there are

any.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

[roger_smith4]

Try Clayton's approach or Roark's UT-3D approach for some ability to tone papers. Look at Clayton's article on paper types and try a couple of warmer and cooler papers.

[sladez]

Chris--

I exclusively use an HP 8750 which produces superb BW prints using a 3set gray cartridge.

It is the best I have seen (and I have seen almost all of them) on glossy/satin papers. I

also came from the world of selenium toning fiber base prints and straight out of the box

the 8750 BW's were a bit warm to me. I have devised a very simple method of introducing

a hint of color into the print without showing metamorism to give it that selenium look. If

what you are after is something more extreme this can be done just as easily.

I won't go into detail here but if you are interested let me know and I would be glad to

help.

 

Good luck.

[bdb]

Man, my head hurts from hours of research but I'm finally getting close to making a

decision. Thanks to everyone for your help.

 

Although I'm in love with B&W, I don't want to give up the ability to make color prints and

color-toned B&W prints. I can't really afford to to keep more than one printer around, and

the r2400 (which seems ideal for me) is out of my reach at present.

 

The 2200 seems the next best thing for my needs. Using Epson inks with QTR I can

apparently get a good B&W on matte paper. I can also try BO printing with the Eboni

cartridge. Between these two strategies, I'm guessing I can get some good B&W prints.

 

When I want to print color or color-toned images, I could just use the Epson inks. Or I

suppose I could replace the Epson inks with MIS color inks. Not sure about this, it's a

whole other line of inquiry.

 

If I get to the point where I want to improve the B&W capability, especially on glossy paper,

I can get the MIS UT inkset and use gloss optimizer along with QTR curves that take

advantage of it (offered by Daniel in this forum). From what he says, this produces B&W

prints that approach the quality of the r2400 (both glossy & matte).

 

Is this logical? At this point I can't think straight anymore...

 

Thanks,

Chris