Pricing Portrait's for Friends

[ashley_sandwell]

A friend/co-worker asked me to take some portrait's of her children

and wanted to know if I could do it for $100.00. I know this is

possible if I do everything at cost. But I want to make at least a

little profit. She knows where I have my prints made and can easily

call and find out there prices. (Which I have doubled on my price

list to make a profit) Should I charge her a small sitting fee to

just cover the cost of film and keep my print prices the same? Or

should I charge her a larger sitting fee and make my print prices at

cost? I'm just worried she'll find out the actual prices of the lab

and feel like she's getting screwed, because i'm charging her more

than that. But I also feel that if I don't charge a bit more I'll

never make anything with my photography. I hope this all makes sense.

Maybe I'm just worrying about nothing. Any advice you can give would

be great. Thank you

[v.anisimov]

I'd do it for free. She's your friend/co-worker after all. Give her all receipts and don't charge anything extra, otherwise don't do it at all.

 

Also, there's no apostrophe is portraits as it's plural, not possessive.

[fk319]

If this is your main source of income, I would suggest that you charge her your regular 'favoriate customer' price. If this is a secondary source, I would cover your costs, and for your profit you can barter for it. (I often work for food :), as I can't cook, like to eat, and have a good primary job.) I find that friends are more time consuming than regular customers, so make sure you get 'paid' for that time, since you can't be doing other jobs with that time.

[frankl]

I've been in that exact situation with coworkers, and my decision has been to do the shoot at cost. I do it to build up my portfolio and because i enjoy working with people I already know, they are the most comfortable in front of my lens and it shows in the pictures.

 

I like it when my coworkers or friends bring me a little special something that shows they appreciate what i'm doing for them though, maybe your coworker will do the same..

[sabrina_h.]

I'd do it for the $100.

 

My husband's co-worker ask me to photograph her 3 yr old son for some acting gigs. I

said I'd do it for $75 since I know their financial situation. Plus, I'd still make a little profit:

4 rolls of b&w film about $4 each, I develop it myself, scan images on my film scanner and

send her a CD to have her own prints made.

 

I've also done a photoshoot for nearly nothing with a fellow student, because I knew that

he didn't have any money. He needed some headshots for an acting gig. I told him to

give me $20. At least enough to cover my film cost.

 

If it were anyone else, I wouldn't do it for free. But I have given discounts to repeat clients

who needed their photos updated after a year or so.

[tana_minnick]

I am in your situation also. Aquaintances/friends of mine and coworkers of my husband have approached me to do portraits of their families and kids. After much thought I decided to give them a discount on the sitting fee, and charge about half price for prints. I think this is fair, and I'm sure they do too. After all, if you approached a mechanic or plumber friend and asked them to do work for you, you would expect to pay them, wouldn't you? I feel my time is valuable and would also like to make a little profit. I also feel that most people understand that you would mark prints up a bit (from cost).

[beno_t_marchal]

<p><i>I'm just worried she'll find out the actual prices of the lab and feel like she's

getting

screwed</i></p>

<p>Whatever you end up doing, if you explain it to her she won't feel screwed. You can

say:

"I'm giving you a good deal but I still need to make a little something on this to cover the

cost

of the other costs: hardware/training/etc."

<p>She can make an informed

decision: "I'm getting a good deal and helping my friend start her photography" or "no, on

those terms I'm not

interested" but at least she won't feel screwed.

<p>--ben

[twmeyer]

I am much more selfish about this. I make my living as a photographer, but I am also fascinated by the human face/condition.<p> Images for publication and commercial use cost more, interesting looking people frequently pay nothing if they work on my schedule and give me total image control, I charge extra for multiple people in one shot, even more if they want conventional (boring) portraits (all dressed in the same clothes, for instance), I never photograph children for free (especially a group of them) and there's everything in between.<p>Don't undervalue your work or your time. If you have to make prints, double your cost, at least. My commercial rates require at least $100 per hour after all the post production and travel time is factored in. Otherwise, I'm losing money, and in that case I'd better be getting some killer photos for the portfolio .. t

[gary_watson]

I favor Tom's formula. Do pay attention to the idea of "opportunity cost" on your time, i.e., you could be making money with the time you're giving away. Your "friend" bloody well knows what these shots cost and shouldn't be offended by your pricing; if she is, then back out and don't worry about looking awkward. After all, she's only outed herself as cheapskate--not you.

[twmeyer]

In re-reading this it occured to me that a 100% markup on a 5x7 machine print from Costco doesn't even pay for a gallon of gas, and will almost cover the cost of a DVD. Ink cartridges vary from 12$ to 35$ and an 8x10 of a decent injet paper ranges from 50 cents to $2. How much do you get paid at your day job? What does that break down to, per hour? How many hours will go into this portrait job, including drive time, time at the lab, time going back to the lab (it always takes twice) and in conversations with your client. It's <i>your</i> life... what's it worth to <i>you</i>? Don't even consider what your life is worth to her... t <p>(Better yet, tell her you'll trade... you need the windows in your house washed and she needs portraits. You could use Vladimir's approach and trade receipts, after all, you're her friend/co-worker...right? :^)

[jonathan_brewer1]

'A friend/co-worker asked me to take some portrait's of her children and wanted to know if I could do it for $100.00'.............This is why business and friendship don't mix, kids are going to move, they can become very difficult, and your pricing shold reflect that.

 

What is bad about how she approached you is that she wouldn't have approached a stranger that way, and even if it is unintended, it puts you on the spot. My wife used to approach me for years, with........................'listen, I have this girlfriend, she doesn't have any money, but she'd like to have...............'.

 

I put my 'foot down' years ago, with giving her closest girlfriend ONE 'freebie', and she'd have to pick which one because I wasn't going to be doing them all, all of her relatives are out of town, when they come to down, once about every five years, I'll do a group shot, to keep peace in the family, after all I'm not a 'scrooge'.

 

Things are messed up already w/the undercutting that goes on w/Sears, Montgomery Ward et al, and what's lost in the mix, is how lean their services are, I find it amusing that some people have thrown their prices in my face, my immediate response is to tell them to go to Sears and then I disengage. I also find that DEEP DOWN, that many people, not all, want good portraits but don't want to pay for them.

 

Don't forget one thing, no matter how cheap you give them the job, they still expect it to be well done, if you're going to do it right, you should be paid for it, that job for your friend, dealing w/kids, including a friendship discount, is AT LEAST a $200.00 job(invite her to call around to established photographers[and I'm not saying you're not] to see what they'd charge for kids), I believe it will/should open her eyes.

 

When I add up the difficulty of the job, what/who's involved, I give a price, if it's somebody I know, an aquaintence, a friend, and they say they don't have the money, I disengage w/let me know you can get everything together, and of course feel free to look elsewhere, but this is pretty much what I can do the job for.

 

If you undercut yourself, I guarentee you other people will hear about it, they'll all want the same deal, and will be pissed if they can't get it, and many folks will play on friendship and your sympathy, if you submit to this you'll spend quite a few years 'busting your but', on to make ends meet.

 

I learned my lesson quite a few years ago, my wife had a very close friend, who approached me about a function she wanted only me to photograph, and of course she pleaded w/me that she had only x amount of money, I showed up at this function to shake hands w/the Videographer she'd hired in addition to me,................work for what you think is reasonable, and don't let anyone make you feel guilty about expecting to be paid that price.

 

Also charge for TWO rolls for every roll of film shot, you're using one roll on this job, you must replace that roll to use on the next job, or pay for that film from the money you get from the next client.

 

In negotiating, when people say, 'that's all I have'..............that actually means, 'that's all I want to pay'.......................and don't go for the 'if you do this job for next to nothing, I'll tell everybody about you', which is a ploy to get you to do the job for nothing/next to nothing, and no follow through.

 

Unfortunately, w/doing portraits, you'll have to watch your clients as much as some of them think they have to watch you. I have two friends that are no longer my friends(if they ever were) because they sulked about my not doing a job for nothing, and my attitude about that is 'good riddance', good luck.

 

BTW................my plumber says he goes through the same thing.

[jonathan_brewer1]

Also, on two occasions, I've had to resort to going to court to get the balance owed me on a job. When you do a job, get a non-refundable deposit(people show up when it's non-refundable) to cover your costs, if you do this long enough, some of your clients will take off on you.

[ashley_sandwell]

I don't mind doing it for less for her it's just that where I work is a bunch of women who like to talk. And I know of a couple others who want me to photograph for them and when they hear what I charge her they will expect the same price from me, so I don't want to do it too cheap. Also, should I have her sign a contract or is that rude? I'm sorry I'm new at this and I just worry about the pricing part of it. I was thinking that I could just charge her what the film is with no sitting fee and leave my print prices the same this way I make a little and can stay within her $100 range. Does that seam reasonable? Thank you all so much for you advice, I really appreciate it. This site really helps new people like me! :-)

[jonathan_brewer1]

Hey Ashley, don't sweat it, everybody starts at the starting line, I've been through this, you want to do a lot of work, get some shoots under your belt, understood, get the word of mouth going, understood.

 

At some point in time, you will gain that experience, you'll learn, and the process will become easier and easier for you, you'll become accomplished, as you get better, you experience, technique, and craftsmanship, will enable you to give them an excellent product.

 

Your clients don't understand the amount of work that goes into producing a good portrait and/or many of them don't care, nothing to get mad about, that's life, but at some point in time, you'll in effect undercut yourself if you don't raise your prices, your clients/word of mouth will tag you as someone who does good pictures and is cheap, and there's nothing wrong with that, but staying at a particular price, I think you'll find that after a certain amount of time goes by, you'll realize that you've been putting quite a bit of 'sweat' into you jobs, jobs where you did good work, and you don't have a lot to show for it.

 

As I've said, you yourself will probably realize when you've gotten to this point like I did, and at that point, you'll raise your prices because you feel like you're a photographer with the kind of skills where you're worth the money. Quite a few years ago, I showed a lady my portfolio, she asked for a price for me to do her portrait, after I mentioned the price, she asked me point blank just what was she getting for that kind of money, and my response was, 'I've just showed you my portfolio, there are others out there that are charging 3 to 5 times or more what I'm asking and I don't believe they can do a better job than I can, but please shop around, if you can find a better price then it only makes sense to jump on it and quick, but I have to have this amount'.

 

You'll find as time goes by, that you'll lose jobs, but understand some people will approach you and attempt to get you to work yourself to death and for just enough money to get a '6 Dollar burger' when you're through, these folks at your job, once they find out about a deal, they'll expect the same deal, for themselves, and for everyone they refer to you, so you have to figure out how to send the right message about what you charge for your service, and at the same time make a few bucks, and without burning friendships or causing ill feelings.

 

The funny thing about it is, that there is absolutely no relationship between the skills of some photographers and what they charge, there's somebody out there, who doesn't have anywhere near your skills, who's charging $500.00 for a portrait that you're doing for $100.00, and there's people that are paying that $500.00, I know somebody like this, some folks have shown me his work, I won't 'badmouth' him(I guess that's blown if he follows this forum) to his former clients, because that's how he pays the rent.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is that charging a low fee may not achieve the desired result for you, it may cause hard feelings down the line with people who want to pay the same as your friend regardless of whether you want to charge them something more.

 

If I were you, I'd do one of three things, do the job fore her for $100.00, only on the condition that she tells anyone when asked that you charged $200.00, that's one way to go, or.................do it for the $100.00, and everyone else at the same prices, until you feel your efforts are worth more money, or...........charge her $200.00, but regardless of what you do believe me that when starting out, most of us have the same doubts/concerns as to just how to proceed, as time progresses and you look back on how hard you've worked your but off, believe me, later on, you won't be having these inner conflicts :^).

[jonathan_brewer1]

You work w/her, hopefully you know where to find her, let's hope she's the kind of friend who's a stand up friend, a friendship kind of deal, for a C note, I wouldn't go through motions of a contract, but remember for later on, some people have awfully short memories, a contract is a good idea for everybody because when you show them what you've discussed and where they signed off on all the items of discussion, it squashes 'selective memories', also tell her that for that price, she needs to understand that you'll make so many effort for the job, but if the kids are not in the mood, that's not on you, and you both need to discuss just what you're going to do if that happen, because you can't force kids to sit still, they either do or they don't. Having said that, and since this is a friendship shoot involving kids, be prepared for 2 shoots.

[peterlee]

You could simply qoute your price and give the "family and friends discount" of 10% or 15%. That way it will always be fair. No confusion.

[jonathan_brewer1]

If you do Portraits for money, there'll always be confusion, the more experience you gain, the easier it is for you to cut through it, give you an example, early in my career, after telling this lady that I once I took on a job, I would not quit until she was satified, we had to do a number of shoots, because she kept saying she wasn't satified w/the results, I then got it through my 'thick' head, that she was happy with the pictures, but saying she wasn't happy so she could experiment and show up for the reshoots w/different wardrobe changes. There are people that will play those games.

 

A later adjustment to my contract that you have to sign off on, is that I will re-shoot until the client is satisfied, BUT w/only the wardrobe that the client originally signed off on(we go over wardrobe before the shoot). If you don't show up sober and well groomed, and/or without the wardrobe we agreed upon, I retain the right not to shoot, and keeping the non-refundable deposit. Emphasizing this SEVERAL TIMES in the initial meeting, and having them sign off on this, cuts down on games, and not taking the shoot serious/'I think I'll party tonight and cancel the shoot tomorrow'..............

 

Confusion? People promise to show up groomed, they show up 'raggedy' or without the wardrobe they agreed to bring, or 'hungover' after I insisted that I would prefer they get a good nights sleep the night before the shoot w/o partying. I had a friend show up for a shoot, DRUNK and smelling like grass, we put him in a bedroom, let him sleep it off, let him throw up, got some coffee into him, some food, and then did the shoot that evening(I laid aside playing hardball and dealt w/it).

 

Admittedly I'm giving you 'worst case scenarios, most of the time, things go swell, but you NEED to figure out what to do in ADVANCE if things go wrong, and put that in your contract, that keeps you out of trouble, IF you're CAREFUL of who you take on as a client, and you're vigilant about the details, and if you care about your work, you'll earn every penny of your money, particularly w/folks who aren't entertainers/actors, all I'm saying is that once you start doing it, it isn't going to be as easy as you think, and there will always be some confusion, you just gotta deal w/it.

[giggles]

Ashley - I didn't read all of the threads so I don't know if someone recommended this.... I too have been in this situation. I would have your friend purchase the film of your/her choice and tell her that you will take the pictures for $100 fee. Then give her the film to process and make final prints from. That way you get $100 for your time and she can deal with the hassels of enlarging and processing... Just an idea. Best of luck

[cálico]

Is the profit margin so important? $100 is better than nothing, particularly with friends.

 

Look at this from a totally different point of view. You have a regular job and photography seems to be a side job for you. It's not like your entire livelihood depended on photography, no?

 

My friend, a bona fide mechanic, often repaired my auto for nothing; I paid for the parts (he works as a chauffeur). I was embarrassed and offered to pay each time. He knew that I was going through a very difficult time and he said, "It's not that you pay me less or pay me at all; in your situation, it would be a shame that you would go to someone else and have to pay." I was again embarrassed but my gratitude came in the way of referrals that I made for him (and I never accepted a "finder's fee" from him); everytime I visited, I showed up with small gifts and snacks for everyone. I took photos of his children, engraved (yes, I'm also an engraver) small gold aluminum nameplates for each child's photo. I mounted the photos on plaque boards and attached the engraved nameplates beneath the photo. I did this for three children; the cost of my work was nowhere near what he could have charged me.

 

OK, so you decide to take the photos for $100; and that friend refers others. A small profit from friends is better than nothing; and other small profits are better than none at all.

 

I am not suggesting that you sell yourself short, by any means. I'm suggesting that friends oftentimes do expect "favors" from us. Some day YOU may need a favor or a discount from a friend's labor...

 

It's all on how you perceive this situation. If you feel that your friend is taking advantage of you, decline. Will the others also be taking advantage of you, too, by offering to pay $100? They may also decide to refer others to you, too.

 

Have you considered that they might be thinking that they're doing you a favor by asking you to take photos and the $100 is what they wish to GIVE you to help you out?

 

If you decide to do it, why not do it when you are not photographing important events (weddings or good-paying sitting sessions) or when you have some free time? As I said, something is better than nothing, unless you depend exlusively on your photo sessons for a livelihood.

 

As an engraver, I used to give people little pieces of plastic engraved with initials and a key ring (I called these "throw-aways"); that material would've been thrown out by another engraver... but I GAVE them away. I didn't lose a single thing. I made many friends and I also got a MANY of referrals!

 

Favors have a habit of coming back. Can you live with taking a roll of film or two for $100? You don't have to go all out, you know. You can just take a few photos from a single roll of film rather than making a huge production out of it. At least you'll keep a friend and possibly gain other referrals even if the profit margin is not a large one.

 

My suggestion is that you do what your conscience will let you live with. Good luck and best wishes.

[potok]

don't charge her a penny. You are not a professional but amateur. If i tell you tell me now

that your stomach hurt, i can tell you my advice. If i don't charge you, it is friendly advice,

if i do I just gave you profesional medical advice. You dont charge anything, they don't

expect anything. And that way you control situation. You did photos that you wanted to

do, not the ones she ordered. And if she likes it, even if she doesnt, she owes you a favor.

You newer know when it will come useful. Even if you never get something in return, hey

you made your friend happy. Much better then $100. Concentrate on the kids, get to know

them, their smiles and their tricks. If nothing else, you might end up with few great

pictures for this forum. But it is just my personal oppinion.

[steve_hovland]

Shoot a roll of film for free. Give her the film and point her toward the nearest minilab. They'll do a pretty good job. Ask her to get double prints and give you a set as payment for your effort. That will give you portfolio shots.

[joebloggs]

I've learned from bitter experience: never do anything like that for free. If people pay nothing, they value it at nil. Likewise, if they feel they should have paid something, they are embarassed and end up avoiding you and not recommending you, which is exactly the opposite of what you want.

Even if you don't charge them money, let them feel you have been paid somehow, either by telling them that the addition of the shots to your portfolio is worth more than money, or let them buy you a meal, or (as one poster suggested) by letting them have the prints made and getting you a set.

[emre]

I would not let them do the processing themselves, as they will simply take the film to the nearest pharmacy and blame you for the poor prints.

[lewis_smith]

I know this is an old question, but I still think it is a worthwhile subject. I would suggest that if you are trying to estblish a business, that you estblish a price list and charge your normal prices. I think that is the best policy for everyone except very close family. The reason is if you do this for her at her price, where will you draw the line for the next person that she refers. You must understand that you are in business to make a profit, not in the business of charity just to stay busy. Just because I'm friends with the guys at my favorite places does not mean I'll get a discount. I go there because I like the goods or services they provide. Maybe you can tell her that after she refers x number of people you will give her a referal gift which might be additional prints or something like that. That way you both win. By all means, don't start out working hard and earning nothing, just to feel like you are working.