Do I use images of a couple when wedding called off?

[jeffc1]

I spent a couple of hours with a young couple in an engagement session 3-weeks

ago for their September 2006 wedding. I really like the images that I had

captured, but I recieved a call from the "brides" mother stating that

the "groom" had broken up with the "bride" and called off the wedding. I use

images I capture as advertising, like I am sure all of you do to promote your

businesses, but I am thinking that it's probably not a good idea to use images

from a couple that had broken up? I mean if it were me, and I saw images of me

and someone that had just broken up with me just weeks before our wedding day,

I would probably be reminded of this unfortunant situation and be crushed all

over again? They are very nice shots though! What do you all think? Jeff

[jennie farnsworth]

I would lean toward not using them. We've been in similar circumstances, and it really hurts not to use something that is portfolio quality, but IMO it's just a courtesy thing.

 

Jen

[fotografz]

Don't use them publicly. Samples to show new clients in person can't hurt, nor do they need

to know the sad story when using them as samples. But if you don't really need them, then

forget it altogether.

[phillip hurd - atlanta ga]

Provided I had it in my contract, I would not hesitate to use those images. I see this as primarily a business decision. That couple, in good faith, decided to use your services to photograph their wedding, signed a contract, and you fulfilled the part of the contract that was due. You are not their priest, their confidant, or their premarital counselor. You have to feed your family, pay your bills, keep the lights on in your studio or the batteries charged in your cameras. I wouldn't hesitate to use them to build my portfolio.

 

Unless you intend to have a backyard barbecue with these people later on you need to be dispassionate, professional, analytical, and do what's in the best interest of your business. If your former bride or groom does not want you to use the photos sell them to him/her (that is your business.) If you still have an issue, ask yourself this question since the bride and groom broke up makes you not want to use their photos, are you then going to turn around and say any couples that get divorced you won't use their photos either?

 

This is where business analysis should prevail. I have very strong feelings on this. Professional photographers need to run Professional Photography BUSINESSES. If you just like photography and want to give it away or let other people determine what is best for you then don't do it professionally, be the friend that shows up and takes pictures.

 

No disrespect is intended, but if I can roughly translate what you said it would be, "Do you think I should use some of my best photos to promote my business even though someone else might not like it?"

 

My answer would be "YES!!!!"

[jairy hunter]

If you are in a small town as I am, there is a high probability that other potential clients who

know the "back story" will see those images and it would just seem like bad form.

[rick_gerbehy1]

Reminded me of a funny situation. When I was just out of college in 1974, I photographed quite a few weddings of mostly college friends and frat brothers. I kept an album of sample 8x10 to use as a sales tool when making proposals to new clients. After about 6 years of minimal activiity, I was contacted by a college classmate to photograph his wedding. When I met him and his fiance to show them the samples, we all laughed when we realized of the weddings I shot right after college, only about 50% were still married.

[j_c38]

Off subject, and maybe already done;

Make sure you have the cancelation of the wedding in writing if you have a contract to shoot the wedding.

[kevin cook - stratford upo]

I, like most of you, will use images of the happy couple on our web pages/show albums but please don't ask me how many of them are still married! The divorce rate would suggest 60% have gone their separate ways! The split up rate for engagements is much lower but that only explains the high divorce rate!

 

This said the chances of a past client/friend/relative coming across the picture is remote but we can't possibly know (or care?)

 

If it's good enough then I would use it until something better/more recent comes along or someone actually complains.

 

There is, however, one potential hitch in the UK. The recent Human Rights Act could be used to suggest that a photograph showing someone clearly in a close relationship which was seen by people she did not want them to see (such as new husband who she didn't tell him about it) would be a breach of her human rights for privacy.

 

This is the line in the act which was used successully against a local council who used security cameras in a public place.

 

'The right of the individual to be protected against intrusion into his personal life or affairs, or those of his family, by direct physical means or by publication of information'

 

It would be argued that you knew the couple had split up but continued to use the photograph suggesting that they were still in a relationship. Any contract would have 'died' when it was cancelled by the bride's mother.

 

This, of course, is my take on UK law. I would however still follow my advice and simple apologise and remove if a complaint was received as this would probably avoid any further action.

[timcorridan]

i like your web site lay-out. you could use these images as you know. so use them. would either bride or groom have a chance in heck of seeing them? looking at your web page's portrait sub-page, is the last thing on their minds. i imagine making a big canvas and putting it in your storefront window on main street usa, might be a crude idea. its great your thinking about this, but its probably not that big of a deal to the bride/groom. who knows, mabee they see it, get back togather someday, and live happier than any one else...because of you...

[timcorridan]

cold and thoughtless answer: swap heads with friends, in photoshop.

[darrin ballman www.crossl]

Given that it's an engagement session, I would ditto the no in public, but private examples ok. It's not about having the right to or not - of course you would have the right to - it's about being or at least looking a bit more considerate. There are lots of things we may have the right to do - but it doesn't mean it's wise. Whether or not wedding couples are together are for me a completely different thing....unless someone is in such a small town that it's to their advantage to work them out of viewing.

[think27]

Comment reposted minus "signature" photo.

 

No way. My husband and I both own and operate our photography business, and to be honest, I really believe that in any profession, there has to be heart. Our business has boomed through free advertising and word of mouth. We have no egos, and one of the biggest compliments we get is' "You were so easy to work with. You were normal, like one of us." Frankly, it makes it sound that we were thought of as high and mighty aliens with a great camera or something, but I understand what the bride and groom means.

 

Also, while the city I live in is not a metropolis, it is is still a fair size, and the 6 degrees of separation is scary. In a DVD slideshow of our work, many young couples gasp, "Hey! I went to school with that person!" Yikes!

 

Being a woman, with fluxuating amounts of estrogen ;) I can vouch for most women that if a bride was to hear of, or even see, her engagement photo, it would be a constant reminder of what 'could have been.' And that's not fair, and almost cruel.

 

If you love the way the picture turned out, the composition, the setting, etc. then re-do it with furture clients, and perhaps save the picture in question in the back of your portfolio. I am sure you can market your business with another photo.

 

Our business is profitable because we balance business with heart. As sappy as that is, I think we have been blessed because of it.

 

Good Luck!!

 

Answered by Katie Ouellette (kouellette4@cogeco.ca) from 72.38.128.167 on August 08 09:43, 2006.

[uk]

Jeffery,

 

Clearly, they are unlikely to approve of any publicity using their images and therefore I

concur with those that would say negative to you.

 

As a consolation you protect your interests in three future wedding possibilities. Stay

close to them and the business will come your way eventually.

[timcorridan]

so everyone that says don't use them, would take out all the divorced, seperated, couples from their website/public marketing??? what if they were your best "hero" shots?

[jennie farnsworth]

Yes, if we know a couple is now divorced, we remove them from our portfolio. However, there are two points to keep in mind: 1) nine times out of ten, it's such a private matter we're never told that the couple got divorced; and 2) we try to rotate our portfolio around every year or two to keep it fresh, so there's hardly a chance for anyone to get divorced in that timeframe.

 

Jen

[ShunCheung]

This shouldn't be a legal issue. Out of respect of that couple that has broken up, I certainly wouldn't use their image together in public, such as web sites, studio display, etc. The same courtesy should be extended to couples who have had a bitter divorce. Using their image in a private album is unlikely to be a problem.

 

There is always a chance that they may get back together or have weddings with other people. You want to stay in good terms with them. I can't imagine that those images of them, regardless of how great they may be, would be so important to your business and cannot be re-created with other people.

[phillip hurd - atlanta ga]

I must add to my first post.

 

Jeff obviously these are some "great" shots or you wouldn't be asking. I am a fairly decent sales person but I couldn't sell my skill without proof of my ability, which are my "great" photos.

 

To make great photos I take time away from my family to go to weddings, parties, sporting events etc... My compensation is two fold, (1) monetary and (2) having even more great photos to show.

 

I still hold that that is a business decision that should be based on whether you think those photos will translate into sales. For example, if they are really great and help directly or indirectly you to book 10 weddings and you charge $1000 a wedding then it will cost you $10,000.00 not to show those photos. Do you really intend to throw away that much money every time someone you put in front of your lens can't make a go of it?

 

Few of the arguments here have been made from the photographerﾒs point of view; most have been made from the brideﾒs emotional point of view (and an assumed point of view at that). Jeff never said it was a horrible breakup but rather that they just did. How do you nay sayers know that they didn't decide to just be good friends or that in a couple of months they won't be right back together (ever heard of cold feet)? I have some friends who have married and divorced the same woman more than once. This is why in my earlier post I pointed out that these decisions should be treated as business questions not emotional ones.

 

Several posts have pointed to word of mouth as a reason not to use the photos. That has merit but again how many of your customers come from this family or group of friends? It should be a business decision! Life has ups and downs and has to be viewed from a holistic perspective. None of us knows what that bride will do, think, or feel about her ex in the future (and Jeff may only know part of the present) so how can we/he make business decisions about it now?

 

Jeff you also didn't appear poised to send these photos to the bride but rather show them examples of your work to other potential clients. I don't expect that you are going to give a detailed back story of the couple in every photo you show either.

 

Jeff my advice to you is to stay true to your business philosophy. In my business I rarely hear, as a previous poster put it, "you are like one of us." This dosen't bother me in the least. What I hear often is, "You are the most professional person we have dealt with." I treat my clients with professionalism, respect, and I am honest about EVERY detail. I live up to every thing in my contract; and usually far surpass it, I often use peoples wedding photos to promote my business. I would never use any photos that would hurt my business, but I also wouldn't hesitate to use photos that would help it.

 

Jeff as a business owner ask yourself will these photos hurt my business. If the answer is "yes" don't use them. Then ask if they will help. If the answer is "no" don't use them. If the answer is "yes," use them. In any case stay true to how you want to run YOUR business.

 

 

-Phil

[jeffc1]

There are very good points here, and I appreciate everyones input. My thoughts are this: Believe it or not, I am not into this photography business for the money. My photography business doesn't support me & my family, but it does have to support itself. Yes, I want to be successful to where I can count on photography as a means of financial support, but not at the expense of other people. When someone books a wedding with me, I do not get excited because of the money, I get excited that I have another opportunity to offer my services to someone that likes the images that I capture. Plus, the most exciting part of wedding photography to me is the fact that the couple trusts me with being the one to capture their images the way that I do, and they allow me to be part of their wedding day. As corney as that may sound to some, it's just the way it is.

 

Yes, I am from a very small town, so people would probably view me as a "bad guy" should I put those images on display, which could hurt business. I guess what it comes down to is me putting myself in her shoes. I mean if I was in love with someone enough that I was willing to spend the rest of my life with them, but for whatever reason she broke up with me and the wedding was called off just weeks before it was to take place, I would be crushed! And it would be even worse if I walked down the street and saw a 16x20 of our engagement session in a store front window. That kind of hurt I wouldn't wish on anyone. They just need to heal, and not be reminded by the images that I captured regardless of how good I think they are. If they get back together, then we are good to go should they want me to shoot their wedding, but if not, well I would rather keep them away from any further pain. Plus it would be kind of awkward should one or the other walk in with a new love of their life and see an image of the person they love with someone else. It would just take the wind out the sail. Therefore, I have decided that there will be other shots just as good in the future, God willing, and we can all move on peacefully.

 

Thanks again to you all, for all of the input.

Jeff

[craig_gillette]

I think you'd be wise to not use them in a wide public setting, if at all. Even assuming you had it in your contract. There are intangible ripples from an event like this. You have to balance the potential for "good" advertising against the potential for "bad."

 

Somehow this justifying anything "for the portfolio" rings a bit hollow for the more established business.

[imgnepc]

"Unless you intend to have a backyard barbecue with these people later on you need to be dispassionate, professional, analytical, and do what's in the best interest of your business."

 

Okay, if your in business to sell shoes. This is more than that. The wedding photography business is a business BASED on love and romance. You can't be entirely dispassionate in ANY situation when it involves someone's wedding day and romantic life.

 

I would definitely not use these publicly, especially if you're an experienced photographer. I'm sure you have other photos to choose from. You could use them to show potential clients privately, I don't see a problem with that, but you can't be completely dispassionate when your job revolves around passion. This business isn't JUST business, ya know?

[rcox2]

Sounds like it would be bad karma.

[stephen hazelton]

Jeff, I think you hit the nail on the head yourself. You might be legally entitled to use them, but it would seem tacky to me to use them in any kind of a public ad or website.

[savagesax]

Nope, never, forget about it! Part of being a great photographer is knowing that you WILL create even better photos. Part of being a wedding photographer is letting the people you CARE about them. Offer to do a family portrait of the brides family for the upcoming holidays and the same with the grooms family. hehe, not at the same day and time of course. 20 minutes apart at least.