tips on studio portraits of older women

[roberto_leriquemo]

any links for above request? or any advice?

other than avoiding side lighting, any advice is appreciated.

thanks.

[steve_levine]

This is a link to Joe Zeltsman's tutorials on portraiture.

 

 

http://groups.msn.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/joezeltsman.msnw

[jonathan_brewer1]

I've enclosed a portrait of Dorothy, her portrait wasn't one of my personal projects, nor was she a young actress/entertainer, I executed this portrait for her as a 'hired hand', giving her a portrait that she wants as opposed to what I would like.

 

After it was agreed that I would do her portrait, I asked her what kind of portrait would she like, and she said I'd like it too look 'glamourous', and she'd like it to be in B&W.

 

This is the most difficult kind of portrait I do, portraits of older women who want to look 'glamourous', particularly women who never had 'Movie Star' good looks when they were young, and now because of time, a photographer must also deal with wrinkles, folds, double chins, spots, bags under the eyes, thinning hair, and on and on.

 

Dorothy is well into middle age, she is an accomplished businesswoman, and because of having to be tough, has a habit of looking 'stern', she has wrinkles, the hair around her forehead has thinned, and her skin is uneven(blotchy).

 

I had to come up w/a lighting scheme which I knew would also compliment her round face, a round face I also intended to de-emphasize w/the way we styled her hair for her portrait. This project in terms of lighting was definitely 'Butterfly over/under' all the way, with as much 'fill' as I could shove into wherever there were wrinkles as possible. My key was just above my fill in order to attack those wrinkle, my fill which was coming below the lens also brightened her teeth.

 

We style Dorothy's hair in an oval shape to tone down the suggestion of her round face, we attempted to split up the area of her forehead by wafting some hair over part of her forehead and over her eyes which also was an attempt at softening Dorothy's look.

 

A good deal of diffusion was used, but my attempt was to keep it smooth as opposed to end up with an impenetrable 'fog', or just plain mush, selective focus was a must as an additional 'softener' of her look, but in using a lot of diffusion/selective focus, you have to nail the focus or you'll get 'mush'.

 

I did all this in an attempt to get a bright/upscale/upbeat/'sparkly' look, and explained to Dorothy that we would try to talk her through the moods and feelings I wanted from her, and that after that it was all up to her in terms of coming up with something legitimate that would come through, she was adamant about a smile with broad grinning teeth, which is the most difficult portrait of all, since this kind of shot has been done ad nauseum, ad infinitum.

 

I never ask my clients to frown or smile or to effect any kind of expression, we discussed moods and feelings, so that I can let them look the way they normally look when they feel the things we touch on, and unless a client is an experienced entertainer, asking them to 'smile' will almost invariably result in them forcing something that they think you want instead of pulling at something inside.

 

After doing several versions, including one duotone, she selected/loved the duotone, this is the version I uploaded.

 

Anyway, this is my take on photographing older women, I wanted Dorothy to have something she'd feel good about, that was still her, and 'glamourous' as she had asked for, and luckily my concept of what she wanted coincided w/her expectations, I would be caution you to be careful about not asking enough about an older clients expectations of what they want and whether they're realistic enough for you to be able to deliver, I've turned down clients who were middle aged, overweight who showed up with a picture of a slender model as an example of what they wanted to look like.

 

Anyway, I went ahead and put the time into posting this and uploading this image to give you some ideas as to what can go into 'piecing' together a shot like this for a client.

 

Everytime I convert a tiff image to a j-peg, it comes off too light, so if this one comes off too light, I'll send another one.

 

This shot will never hang in a museum, but Doroty loves it, she's proud of it, and so am I. <div></div>

[roberto_leriquemo]

steve: for the link...will review that one a few times as it all sinks in.

 

jonathan: for your time and effort at posting details of not just the technique but also the thought behind a shoot of this nature. your image of dorothy really makes her look like a woman of maybe 40 max, if not 35. wrinkles gone, skin soft, neck youthful.

i had not thought of butterfly as i initially intended to shoot rembrandt but i guess you are right in that butterfly hides age well.

 

thanks much!

[jonathan_brewer1]

She is beyond 40, but in an effort to avoid getting shot, I'll refrain from saying by how much.

[jmf]

along the same vein (if you'll pardon the expression), anyway short of opaque makeup to deal with a ruddy complexion (Middle 50's, round face)? Strobe makes things much worse, even softbox doesn't help.

[jonathan_brewer1]

It's not the use of a softbox per se, it's that the light of your strobes will go right through much of the make-up bought on the street as if it wasn't there, Dorothy has on theatrical make-up, a lot,...........also we used an organge 21 to lighten her skintone.........we therefore couldn't use a red based lipstick as it would turn her lips white. The lipstick we used is one I know will work when using a red filter.

 

A shoot of this nature demands the requisite attention to make-up.

[jonwilliamsogdenutah]

This image of an older woman is very disturbing to say the least. I looked at it for several minutes thinking that my screen had gone

"haywire." When I photograph older women my results do not look so "Bizarre."

[jonathan brewer]

What do your mean by bizarre, I've read you bio which suggests you're a master teacher, so if you can't

give specifics then what the hell are you talking about?

 

Despite how bizarre you find the image, and how much you hope your results differ, I was hired by Dorothy

to give her what she wanted, and I gave her that. She has a '36"x48" version of this image hanging on her wall

that she shows to everybody, and she ordered quite a bit of extra prints than she originally asked for, running

just barely into the xxxx figures.

 

I was hired to please her not you. My personal website's at www.imageandartifact.bz for anyone to feel

free to peruse, in any question or comparison of portraiture work, mine in relation to your work, because I've

just looked at some of your shots and I don't think you have the skill level to trash one of my shots.

 

If you are/were a Master Teacher I would've expected a reasoned critique of the shot along with advice on

how you would do it right, as opposed to resorting to terms that tell nothing/say nothing like 'disturbing' and

'bizarre'. If you are a Master Teacher as opposed to someone just 'posturing' like one, give me what a teacher

would give without having to be asked, specifics when you post opinions on my shots, and then I respond

w/specifics.

[jonathan brewer]

Let's talk about specifics, and to do that, I'll upload some of my work, hopefully you'll respond in kind,

then everyone can get a load of what both you and me are about. Hopefully you'll upload some of what you feel

you can talk about and we can all talk about the photographs together, but you have to do it w/specifics.

 

I'll start<div></div>

[jonathan brewer]

Here's another<div></div>

[jonathan brewer]

I'll keep 'em coming

[jonathan brewer]

For some reason the system wouldn't let me add another image, I'll try again<div></div>

[jonathan brewer]

Here's a shot I did w/Infrared film, I was tired of shooting portraits the same way, a sitter in front of a background, so I decided to shoot both infrared and then blend the background into the face. Hopefully you'll upload some of work that you think is representative, and that way you just don't tell me, you show me.<div></div>

[jonathan brewer]

Unless you respond, I'll say this..............I've mentored young photographers, and I'm not being presumptious when I say that, I'm not out to prove anything, it's simply out of a wish to share what I know. Someone told me, and showed me, and I'll pass that along.

 

I tood the time to upload an image and go into exactly why I did what I did, to share with folks who can use what I know, but the bottom line is that they can use it, not use it, or ignore it.

 

I've had my website written up by Joe Farace in his 'Great Photosites revisited' articles for Shutterbug magazine, and I've written articles for RangeFinder magazine and www.alternativephotography.com and I mention this in the spirit of suggesting that I'm at least far enough along in this as you and know how a master teacher, teacher, instructor, or a mentor or whatever you call yourself should go about a critigue.

 

And it isn't the way you did it, which was rude and obnoxious, and when you do it to one of my shots, I'm going to call you on it.

 

I'll share what I know with anybody, which is why I took the time to upload the original image, explain the thoughts about my decisions in making the image, and in that same spirit, I'll demand that you critique my image w/specifics and or contructive criticism which should be the way you teach your students or just don't bother to respond to my posts..

[jack_lyric]

Hey Jonathan,

I believe it is not me but a different poster you have a beef with.

I hardly every check this email address so i just got your note now. Also, i believe my original question goes back 3 years.

In any case, very nice portraits done with a beautiful creativity.

Good work.

[jonathan brewer]

Hi Jack

 

Thank you for those very kind words. Yes, my beef is w/someone else, I don't know how you got a note, so forgive me for that.

 

Take care and good luck

Jonathan