OT Back in the soup again

[terry_rory]

Alongside my digital equipment I am still using film and intend to for

a good while yet.

 

My latest investment is a Nikon Coolscan V neg scanner (still waiting

for Nikon Europe to release it to my dealer grrr) and of course the

M6/Elmar.

 

Today I bought a Paterson dev tank and a changing bag (and have some

HP5 on order) with the intention of getting back into developing and

scanning my own B&W for the first time since my City & Guilds course

many years ago. (No room in house for darkroom so don't suggest it

please.)

 

I need a suggestion for developer and fixer that can be used

occasionally in small quantities that is not too tricky to use. Just

for starters to get me back into this game without tears!

 

I am happy to read in "Black & white Photography" magazine that Agfa

chemicals are back on the market again (including Rodinal) and my

local camera shop is not short of Ilford and Kodak chemicals but, as I

said, it is a long time since I did all this (8 years ago) and we just

used the developer/fixer etc that college provided.

 

I am going back next week to get thermometer, timer, white cotton

gloves, neg sleeves & chemicals and would like your suggestion of a

good 'starter' kit of dev + fixer that will suit HP5.

 

There is no good reason to be doing this given that the local labs are

pretty good with my B&W, and it IS crazy given that 'film is dead' and

my half assed.. 'dev it yourself then digitise it' approach will be

giving the old-timers heart tremors but I have a feeling it could be

fun! So there.

 

Thanks in anticipation of any useful advice. (Please treat my request

as if it were from a complete beginner as I have forgotten most of

what I learnt about DIY development!)

[terry_rory]

At least I have found a use for a block of 10 crap (expired) Konica 200 films I found the other day when clearing out. I will use them to practise loading my spirals with film in the changing bag.

[andrewlamb]

I always liked Kodak's HC 110 as a film dev. Being liquid and concentrate, it's useful for

storage. As a fixer I always used Ilford's Hypam but there's also an Ilford film stop but I never

used it. Blame my boss who claimed it wasn't necessary.

 

I never mastered the art of stopping rings drying on my negs. It was always some of a lottery

so I am reluctant to suggest anything in terms of Photo Flo or whatever.

 

Good luck and enjoy.

[robert_young9]

As I understand it, the liquid concentrates have pretty long shelf lifes. Ilford ID11, Kodak Xtol (liquid), HC110 etc. Likewise the fixers too. Data sheets are your friend, they should have shelf life and capacity information.

 

The key is to have as little air as possible in the bottle with the concentrate. Since the bottles are already pretty small and aren't the collapsable kind, go to the toy store and get bags of glass marbles. Wash them off and as you remove concentrate, add marbles to the bottle.

 

Keep the bottles in a cool, dry and dark place just in case.

 

You probably can't go terribly wrong with HP5 + ID11 + liquid fixer (consider one with an emulsion hardener) from Ilford. Keep good notes, one-shot all your dilutions and be consistent.

 

You can use a couple of rinses of water as your stop bath and the Ilford wash method for the finished film. But you still need a nice clean place to hang the film to dry for a few hours. In the shower or over the bathtub works very well. Close the door behind you when you exit so dust from the hallway doesn't migrate in.

 

Enjoy!

[john_r._fulton_jr.]

Hi Trevor--I use TMAX film developer and Kodak Rapid Fix. The Tmax developer works great

and comes as a liquid concentrate. It has a great shelf life. Over the years I've shot alot of

Tmax 3200 and the Tmax developer is the only thing for that. What I've found is it works

great with Tri-X, too. For a four reel tank I use 6.5 oz of concentrate to make up 32 oz of

developer. At 70 degrees F it's six minutes for Tri-X and 11 minutes for Tmax 3200. It's a

one-shot developer. Very consistent. I'm working thru a bit of a backlog. I'm down to about

300 rolls left to develop. Good luck.

[robert_young9]

Should also mention, use a wash aid or hypo remover. Paterson and others have liquid concentrate versions of those too. Speeds the wash process.

 

If you have water spot problems consider using Photo Flow and some distilled water for the final rinse. Some people use a sponge to pull off the excess water but I've always pulled the film between my index and middle finger (make "sissors" with your fingers) that were clean and well saturated with the Photo Flo/water final rinse solution. Trim any hangnails, etc first so they are nice and smooth.

[mitchell_kirschner]

Trevor, you better hurry, because even by optimistic estimates, the film and chemistry won't be available after June 12, 2006! :-)

 

Just getting into this myself. I love the look of B&W film - my digital conversions can't even touch it.

 

For Fixer, try Clayton's odorless (not sure if it's available on your side of the pond). Your wife will thank you.

 

For developer, I'd suggest something traditional like Ilford ID-11. Stay away from "acutance" developers like Rodinol, which create grain that's too troublesome when scanning.

 

Lots of good info in the B&W film forum. I'm hardly skillful myself yet, but one thing I'm watching out for is that developing for scanning is supposed to be a bit different than scanning for printing. (I'll let others comment on that.)

 

Good luck, and watch out...You're heading down the road of digital B&W inkjet printing with dedicated B&W inksets, which is lots of fun, not very expensive to get started with (on a small format Epson), and produces awesome results.

[andy m.]

I would also recommend a tap water filter to keep particulate contamination to a minimum- means less time spotting after scanning.

[brambor]

HC110 - no need to mix any powder or anything. Ibought 3 graduates and marked my dilution ratio on each of them. One is marked with black marker for developer, one with red for stop bath and one with blue for fixer. I use kodafix for fixer and kodak stop bath. All liquids so no need to mess with powder and hazardous chemicals in paper bags. I also use photoflo for soaking the finished film. I use stainless steel spool and tank. Large finnel to dump the chemicals into after use. I usually pick an empty milk container or juice bottle out of home trash and dispose chemicals at work. You probably don't use a septic system so dumping them right into your sink is probably ok. I have a film washer that hooks up to the water spout, I drop the film into it and let it run for 15 minutes. I hang the film to dry in the shower, two clotespins are used. One to attach the top to the soap holder at the top of the shower and second to attach to the bottom of the film to provide weight to keep the film straight. I use a regular changing bag. The whole thing fits into a smallcardboard box. Ohyea. I have 3 syringes, each marked with permanent marker for the chemical. I use them to extract exact amount for the dilution. So they are marked the same way as the graduates.

[terry_rory]

I saw HC110 this morning. I like the syringe idea and the filtered/distilled water for last wash. I could not remember the name of that stuff that breaks down surface tension of water in the last soak. Thanks for that and all your quick responses.

 

Rene, sounds like you are working the way I will have to with the changing bag. I like your ideas. Makes it sound easier.

 

Shame about the Rodinal. I was looking forward to some outrageous grain one day once I had mastered the basics :) Scanning problems with it? hmmm.

[saotome_genma]

<p><a href="http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=31&t=Film

+Developers">DD-X</a>

[al_kaplan1]

D-76 is a powder but I prefer it. I store the developer in plastic bottles like Coke and other sodas come in. They have to withstand the pressure of the carbonization so they're "air tight" for sure! For long term storage of stock solution you want to make sure that no oxygen is it the water to begin with! Bring the water to a boil, let it simmer at a slow boil for 10 minutes or so, and you'll drive off any dissolved gasses. Then let it cool enough to mix your stock solution. A full bottle of D-76 stored in the dark should last 6 months or more that way.

 

Welcome back into the fold! Start taking your wife out to dinner every night right away so she won't get too upset when she discovers that the bug really bit you and there's an enlarger sitting on the kitchen table. Nothing looks like a real silver gelatin print!

[al_kaplan1]

Photo-flo is the name of the stuff to stop water drops on the negs.

[terry_rory]

Thanks Al :)

 

The enlarger simply won't happen alas. The Nikon Coolscan V is going to be my 'enlarger'. It is paid for and on order. I have to face practicalities and a neg scanner is far better than throwing a daughter out of the house and converting a room. (And forget using one of the 'bathrooms' because with three women in da house there is hardly ever a long enough 'window' to get my own bath or shower let alone set up a temporary darkroom.)

 

I never left the 'fold' totally because I have never been without a good film camera. Neither am I giving up on digital either. Far from it. (That will have a major investment by year end in both body and lenses.)

[terry_rory]

Photo-flo. Noted

[m.c.fitz]

I think I read all the answers carefully, so as not to repeat what anyone else may have said.

 

You likely know it but the quality of the water is important. I use distilled water from beginning to end, with tap water for rincing, but follow that by another standing rince using distilled water, and distilled water in the rinse agent.

 

My rincing procedure is different - I do six, two minutes standing rinses, followed by a five minute flow through rince, and then one last two minute rince, that with distilled water.

 

No one mentioned and I admit it is a contested practice, a pre-soak of the film before putting in the developer. I was taught to do this, the principle being that the emulsion is softened and takes the developer more readily. I think that is the part that people contest, I don't want to start a scuffle here with it. However, the other benefit I have found from a pre-rinse is that my negs have fewer dust holes punched in them, and there is far less spotting to be done afterwards. And everyone likes clean negs.

 

I pre-rinse for about a minute, distilled water, dump it, and then proceed.

 

 

(Now if I can only figure out how to spell rince or rinse correctly I'm sure my negs will be better too.)

[terry_rory]

Don't worry. I rather like 'rincing'.

[m.c.fitz]

All right, this might seem like an obvious thing to mention, but for safety reasons I'll do so anyway.

 

If using any container that once held a consumable beveredge (really have to brush up on my English spelling!) mark it boldly and clearly as to what the contents are. As in, no longer containing consumable liquids. And keep anything, such as funnels, exclusively with the photo stuff, no sharing with kitchen items. Same thing with tea towels. Old towels only for film development.

 

And by the way you're hearing this from a woman, who would far rather turn her kitchen over to a dedicated darkroom than cook but got vetoed by her husband. He likes to eat, it would seem.

[terry_rory]

I will be buying beakers/funnels/squeegees etc (and using them as Rene described with everything put back in a sealed plastic crate after dry and clean. There are no young kids running around to drink stuff by accident and I would not dream of using kitchen utensils for both.)

 

Thanks for the warning

[terry_rory]

Oh yes, and despite the fact it is April 1st, I am NOT 'pulling your plonkers' on this question. I am serious. Thanks for the wealth of info so far.

[brambor]

I ought to try the presoak. Never tried it before. Competiton for the kitchen is fierce. I have to wait for the right moment when the 'kitchen is closed', which is around 8PM. I move in with my stuff. It takes me about 10 minutes to get ready, 10 minutes or less with developer, 1 minute stop bath, 10 minutes fixing, 15 minutes washing, 5 minutes photoflo - 1 hour pases by and it's 9pm. Drying time is 2 hours, cutting negs another 10 minutes. So around 11.15 I have a short window of time to scan the best strip to evaluate and finish scanning the next day.

 

Make sure you wash and DRY your tanks and graduates. Especially the spool should be dry. It isn't fun to feel the stickiness the next time when you try to spool your film in the changing bag.

[blakley]

Trevor, I've recently started doing this too, as developing B&W commercially is ridiculously expensive.

 

I use Ilford DD-X, Ilford Rapid Fixer, and Ilfostop. They're all long-lived, available in liquid form, and easy to use (no two-bath developers etc...). I like the results I get on HP5 with this set-up,

and I'm going to try Pan F this weekend.

 

I agree about the tap water filter.

 

Another thing it's very good to have is a set of three graduated cylinders, one for each solution, with the amounts for single-reel and double-reel tanks marked in sharpie on the side. Makes it much quicker to dilute, and you won't make mistakes with the maths.

[simon_bruxelles]

Trevor, I recently (last year) went back to developing my own film. So far I've restricted myself to HP5 and FP4. Because I may only dev one film a month I buy a small bottle of Ilfosol (ﾣ2.80) so even if I only use it for one film it's still not expensive. I also bought a standard fixer, a Paterson developing tank and two sets of measures for the dev and fixer. So far the most difficult thing has been getting the film onto the spool, and even that is easy with a bit of practice. After I've opened the dev I use glass marbles to displace the air and reseal tightly. If I haven't used it after 3 months I chuck it away and open another one. I don't bother with stop bath and I'm afraid the used chemicals go straight down thre sink. I use them so rarely there's no point trying to reuse them. It's great fun. My only regret is I don't have anywhere for a darkroom so my Leitz enlarger lives in the cupboard. One day, one day....

Simon<div></div>

[terry_rory]

I also only intend to develop one two rolls a month (much of my work will still be on XP2 C41 B&W and self scanned with the benefits of ICE4) but I want to make sure I do a fair job, so am not averse to some attention to detail regarding all the steps. If the stop bath makes for a better neg with more longevity then I will apply one. If the photo-flo does the job I will use it also. I can manage distilled water/filtered water for mixing solutions and for final soak/wash given the small quantities required. I can be an accuracy fiend when it comes to timings and temps.

 

I read somewhere once that 'zapping' the dried, finished negs with a Zerostat gun helps with reducing dust if done just before sleeving them and just after removing from a sleeve. Is that rubbish? (I will use gloves for handling negs for scanning)

 

Yes I intend to be scrupulous about ensuring the cleaniness and dryness of equipment and good storage.

[brambor]

Trevor. Sweating in the changing bag is a major nuissance. When you get ready to go in be relaxed, use short sleeve shirt. I actually lift my hands in the changing bag and let the cloth drop while I spool. It gives youmore airflow and the grafity of the film hanging adds good tension. Practice spooling many many a times before you do so with a valuable film.