Recommend One Body, Two Lenses

[large_formater]

Hello:

 

I am a longtime Photonet member (one id or another) This is perhaps my first

post on this Leica forum. I've answered alot of dumb questions on photonet,

and now have one of my own here on the Leica forum:

 

I am thinking of long down the lime getting one Leica Body, and two lenses. A

100mm ish portrait lens and a 28mm or 35mm wide angle. I know much about all

other types of cameras except for Leicas, which I know very little about.

 

Is the M7 a reliable camera or is the M6 generally thought to be the best?

 

Second, which lenses of focal length 100mm and 28mm do you recommend for the

Leica in terms of optical performance. On the 28, low curilinear distortion

and sharpness are important. On the portrait 100mm, sharpness and colour

saturation is most important to me.

 

Finally, can you recommend a source for lowest prices/best return policy and

reliable customer service for new and used.

 

Thanks in Advance.

[theerapon_pitaktammanart]

Hello,

 

Is the M7 a reliable camera or is the M6 generally thought to be the best?

 

M7 and M6 is up to your prefer about Elec or Mechanic camera or Auto mode.

 

which lenses of focal length 100mm and 28mm do you recommend for the Leica in terms of optical performance

 

M lens 90mm is excellent performance and Summicron 28 too.

 

sharpness and colour saturation is most important to me

 

I think you may look at new ASPH for your stuff.

 

apologise for my weak English.

 

Cheer,

[peter_evans4]

<p>For 100mm, sharpness isn't worth much if focusing is off. I think a fast 85mm+ lens is a waste of money (and size and weight) on a 35mm rangefinder; others disagree.</p><p>If you really want to make a lot of use of 100mm and 28/35mm, then:</p><ul><li>Canon L1, L2, L3, VL or VL2</li><li>Canon 100/3.5</li><li>any recent CV 28mm/35mm screwmount lens (or the Canon 35/2)</li><li>special-purpose (flop down when not in use) Canon accessory finders for both lenses, with automatic parallax correction via the wonderful Canon coldshoe prong</li></ul><p>Stick a red dot on the body if you're into that sort of thing.</p>

[frederick_muller]

I would take the M6 because in my view a mechanical camera is more reliable. Also, the semispot metering of the M7 is not, in my view, the best metering pattern for an aperture priority machine.

 

You can't go wrong with any of the Leica lenses in 28/35 or 75/90 focal lengths. Choice should come down to other factors like lens speed or size and weight.

 

28mm Summicron and 90mm f2.8 Elmarit-M is a nice combination that works for me.

 

35mm Summilux Asperical and 75mm Summilux another nicely balanced combination.

 

90mm APO Summicron is a really, really sharp lens, but largish.

 

You will have a lot of fun choosing from this menu!

[christian hilmersen www.]

IMHO only the 0.85 leicas are any good with 90s, but they cannot be used with a 28 without an external viewfinder. I have a 90,50 and a 28 - and use the 50 about 90% of the time. Having more than one lens on a leica kind of destroys its best quality - its simplicity. I would suggest you only get a good 50.

[nzdavid]

Elmarit 28 is a fine lens; also consider the 24 Elmarit ASPH which is excellent.

 

Tele-Elmarit 90 wins hands-down for compactness; 90 Summicron is excellent at f/2 (I

used to have a big chrome one) but much heavier and larger.

 

Don't discount a 50 for portraits; the Summicron is brilliant.

 

Erwin Putts has several books, and extensive lens reports at www.imx.nl. So does Stephen

Gandy at www.cameraquest.com: a must-see.

 

To buy, try Photo Village New York City, Tamarkins USA, Classic Camera, Ffordes of

Scotland, Robert White UK, Leica Shop Austria, Leica Bei Meister Germany, and Photo and

Video International in New Zealand - plenty out there.

[ilan_g]

I'd get a 0.58 viewfinder body (M6TTL or MP) with the 35/2 summicron ASPH and leave the 90/100mm work to another camera.

[torben_daltoft]

Get an M7 (you'd love the auto, even from the hip) with any recent 35. Shoot 20 rolls, and decide on your next lens. (Sorry, can't help being a big fan of the Tri-Elmar, so consider that one and a 90mm)

[Troll]

Leica CL with 40mm Summicron and 90mm Elmar-C.

[johnny massey]

lowest prices/best return policy? Why not experiment on the cheap - thus, decent M2 body (you are no stranger to hand-held meters I take it), 40mm Rokkor and a 90 elmar. If you buy wisely all of this can be had for about the price of an M6 body and if you dont like it you can move it at very little loss. Apologies if this is irrelevant to you personally, Johnny.

[roger_hicks1]

Well, I love 35+75, and unless I use an external finder, this rules out a lot of early Ms (no 75 frame). If I could afford it I'd have 2x MP. As it is, MP + M4-P, and the 75 frame on the M4-P is marginal.

 

This is not however much help if you want 28mm + 90mm... I really wouldn't bother with 100mm as there is no frame for it. The same goes for earlier Ms and 28mm.

 

Although the 75/2 is now my standard slightly long lens, I have also taken portraits that I like, and which are in what amounts to the National Gallery for the Tibetan Government in Exile, with my 90/2 Summicron. I don't recall if it was on the M4-P or an M2.

 

Personally I hate battery dependent cameras and wouldn't go near an M7, the more so as the shutter speed dial on both the M7 and M6ttl go backwards as compared with all other Leicas. This is no problem if they're all you ever use but if you have other Leicas or have been using Leicas for a long time (30+ years in my case) they are a disaster. There's so much personal preference involved that all you can do is compare as many responses as possible and try to spot any consensus that may come out of them (unlikely).

 

Cheers,

 

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

[gadge]

Based on your question and choice of words, I agree that a CL would probably present an interesting camera choice for you.

[paul_neuthaler]

M4-P, 28 Cosina/Voigtlander 1:3.5; 50 Summicron -- you don't need, IMHO, anything longer than 50mm on a Leica rangefinder camera.

[skip_williams]

I've had an M7 for about 4 years, and it's been rock solid. It replaced two M6's and I've never missed them. I think that the M7 is a much more usable camera with the AE, esp for the first-time Leica user. Carry a couple of sets of extra batteries as insurance.

 

Lenses?

 

1. Consider a closer spacing than 29 and 100, IMO. Those lenses are a long ways apart in focal length.

 

2. Leica lenses are almost certainly the best, but also certainly not the best value. Consider the top-end Voigtlander and the new Zeiss lenses as much-cheaper and slighly-less-expensive alternatives.

 

3. In 28's, the Summicron 28/2 ASPH is probably the king at , but I really like my Voigtlander 28/1.9 Aspherical Ultron at $450. The Zeiss Ikon alternative is a Biogon 28/2.8.

 

4. In a longer lens, I don't think you could do better than the new, ultra-compact 75/2.0 Summicron. It's small, super-sharp, and a great companion to a 28mm lens. In the 90-100mm range, the M-Elmarit 90/2.8 is the king of practicality and performance, IMO. The images you'll get from these two lenses will knock your socks off for sharpness and color saturation. The 90/4 Macro Elmar is interesting, but soo slow for me. Konica also made a close copy of the M-Elmarit that's well-regarded but hard to find. The Voigtlander 75/2.5 Color Heliar is a great alternative, I hear. Many will laud the 90/2 Apo Asph Summicron, but I replaced mine with the M-Elmarit as it was just too darned heavy. The new 85/2 Sonnar is likely superb, but also a big hunk of glass and it's very, very expensive.

 

Good luck,

 

Skip

[nee_sung]

Well, since you'e a large formater, I don't think you would mind smaller apertures. So I recommend that you go for the cheapest Leica 28mm and 90mm (current production), which would be the ones with the smallest (initial) apertures.

 

The extra money (a lot) only buys you that extra one or two stop. Is it really worth all that money? How often do you use it? Especially if you are used to shooting large formats.

 

Paradoxically, the cheapest Leica lenses are usually the best, because of easier manufacture and larger volume.

[vinay_patel]

Disclaimer: I am mostly a collector, not a seasoned photographer.

 

"Is the M7 a reliable camera or is the M6 generally thought to be the best?"

 

Generally the M3-M2-M4 are thought to be the best. Later M2 and all M4 can have 28mm framelines installed. These cameras have no built-in light meter. Between the M7 and M6 the only major difference is the aperture-priority automation in the M7. It has a stepless shutter so if you shoot slide film it may offer slightly closer exposure possibilities. Be aware though that while the shutter speed accuracy is better than on the mechanically-governed shutters, it is an electromagnetic control, not a quartz oscillator, and is not quite as precise as the latter.

 

 

"Second, which lenses of focal length 100mm and 28mm do you recommend for the Leica in terms of optical performance. On the 28, low curilinear distortion and sharpness are important. On the portrait 100mm, sharpness and colour saturation is most important to me."

 

From the specifications the final version of the 28mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M has the flattest field of any Leica 28mm including the Summicron. For colour saturation, contrast and sharpness in a 'portrait' length the 90mm (Leica does not make a 100mm for the M nor are the frame lines in the viewfinder for one)APO-ASPH, followed very closely by the current Elmarit-M.

 

"Finally, can you recommend a source for lowest prices/best return policy and reliable customer service for new and used."

 

There is no one dealer I could recommend that satisfies all criteria. KEH used to be far and away the most fair in terms of used pricing but recently they've gone out of their minds. All major Leica dealers are reliable and have good return policies on used equipment. For new Leica with USA Passport you will not find much if any variation in prices. There are sources both in and out of the USA for 'gray market' new Leica. Unlike Nikon, you will not be refused service by the US repair facility, but unless you bought from an AUTHORIZED Leica dealer in another country there would be no official factory warranty, since those are not transferable to a second owner, and basically gray market importers are considered the first owner.

[watts]

<i>There's so much personal preference involved that all you can do is compare as many

responses as possible and try to spot any consensus that may come out of them (unlikely).

</i><br><br>This is very true. For what it's worth my own opinion is that the M7 is the

better shooter's camera - the option of AE is well worth the mild inconvenience of being

reliant on batteries (which last for ages and are tiny enough that you could have half a dozen

spares in your camera bag and not notice). As far as lenses go, any of the current range are

more than a match for any photographer - the choice really just comes down to preferences

about focal length, size, speed and price.

[john_layton]

Either a .72 or .58 mag body, and a 28 and 50 combo is hard to beat, IMHO. Each of these

lenses, depending on how they are used, is versatile enough to fill in for adjacent focal

lengths.

 

You might also consider the combo of 28 and 75mm.

 

If a 90 is a must for you, then you may find a bit too much of a gap between this and a

28mm. In this case, a 35/90 combo might make more sense.

[35mmdelux]

Here is what I would suggest for someone going to actually use the gear:

 

M6 Classic - has all the framelines and meter

 

90mm Summicron (f2.0)- pre-apo and pre-asph. (1.25 mag monocle for micro composition)

 

35mm/1.4 Summilux asph, OR

 

28mm/2.0 Summicron asph

 

Best - Paul

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Ian,

 

We are in substantial agreement, especially about the relative capabilities of cameras and photographers. Our only difference -- which is very much one of opinion, not indisputable fact -- is that I have about 10 camera bags (and sometimes use no bag at all) so the spare batteries are not quite so easy to take for granted. And, of course, there's the 'backwards' speed dial. I've never missed AE: you are all in favour of it (and I've had cameras that have it). Trying to find the consensus...

 

Cheers,

 

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.cim)

[martins_livens]

M7 is reliable, MP or M6 are more reliable in sense these are mechanical cameras, while M7 is hybrid.

 

all of current 90mm lenses (there is three in production) are pretty good, if you don't need 2 or 2.8 apperture lenses i would recomend macro lens it's smaller and lighter, with macro adapter can be used up to 1:3 macros (max aperture is 4).

 

You will have only one body - and you want to use wide and tele comfortable, thats leave you only with one choice - 0.72, note also that other magnification cameras (new ofcourse) can only be ordered through "Leica-a-la-carte" so they are more expensive.

 

Unless you will have viewfinder magnificator 90 at 2 or 2.8 will not very comfortable to focus. So i don't see the big deal here, cheaper macro 90/4 lens will have pretty shallow depth of field anyway, by the way you can go closer with it( 0.77m [without macro adapter] instead of 1m).

 

Leica have very nice Summicron 28mm/2 unfortunatly 28mm frame isn't very comfortable in 0.72 magnification viewfinder and I would recommend instead look for Summicron 35mm/2 ASPH.

 

What you will get in result? very good all around set - 35mm will do for all low light and general snapshoots, and when you will have time for close-ups, landscapes or portraits. You cant take out 90mm and it will do the job, unless it's very tough low light situation.

 

There is also 35mm/1.4, but price is almost twice as high.

[billc1]

M7 with the .72 magnification. The two lenses should be the latest 90 2.8 elmarit and the 28 Summicron. Keep spare batteries on hand for the M7. Both lenses use the same filter size too.

[blakley]

I'm with John; 28 and 75, with a 0.72 MP or M7.

 

If you want "best quality", go with 75/2 Summicron and the 28/2 Summicron.

 

If you want "cheap", you could get the CV 28/3.5 or (better) 28/1.9 and the CV 75/2.5

 

The 90/4 Macro-Elmar is a fantastic lens (with or without the Macro Adapter M), and the CV 90/3.5 Apo-Lanthar is also very good.

[sprouty]

<I>"M7 is reliable, MP or M6 are more reliable in sense these are mechanical cameras, while M7 is hybrid."</I>

<P>

Assuming that mechanical things are inherently more robust than approximately equivalent electronic things proves to me that you're either, not an engineer, or that you don't understand the meaning of the word reliable.

(please insert smiley emoticon)

[mark_amos]

Listed in order of my price estimates for each kit for all Ex+ condition used stuff:

 

1-$5700 M7 .72 w/ 75 summicron asph and 28 summicron asph. I can't see how anyone could be disappointed with this versatility. I doubt these lenses will be surpassed.

 

2-$3700 M6 .72 Classic w/ 90 elmarit M and 35 summicron asph: This is a lot less money and still the utmost superb versatile kit.

 

I'm leaving out a Zeis Ikon option because at this price level in my list, there is not an affordable over-50 portrait lens.

 

3-$1400 new Bessa R2a w/ 75 2.5 Heliar and 28 1.9 Ultron. New equipment. When it gets down to it, you can do what you need to do with this set up. Fine photographer will create fine photographs.

 

4-$1200 CL w/ 90 Elmar C and 40 summicron. May ultimately have problems with the old 1972 meter, but this is the smallest package and these two lenses have superb character and clarity.

 

That was fun.