The bride who expected too much... Did I do enough as a wedding photographer?

[kevin cook - stratford upo]

Get used to doing the basics regardless of what the B&G say beforehand. I can't count the number of times I've met with the couple who say they only want reportage style or candids and no boring formals only to be asked to do them on the day! Or it's no cheesy or mock ups for us please only to be asked to ensure I get the signing and the cake shot and rings etc. They get put under pressure.

 

I adopt a basic rule of asking them if there is anything more I can do. I might even suggest some if they don't. Leave the shoot with them thanking you and saying that they are happy.

 

Equipment. They couldn't care less, be sure about that. Not a single jot.

 

Best wishes,

 

Kevin

[brandonhamilton]

"brand new 12.8 megapixel camera, all 'L' lenses, extensive knowledge of Photoshop"

 

Why do you keep talking about your new 12.8 mP camera, "all" lenses, and your extensive knowledge of photoshop? I don't see how this fits into you not getting the pictures she wanted.

[vladimir_pcholkin___washin]

I ask all my clients to prepare the list of all posed shots before and after the ceremony including any special shots they need. I work with them about details. After the list is done, B&G select someone from their family, friend or wedding planner to get people ready while I am taking pictures. This way we never forget anybody, B&G feel responsible for getting shots of all important people and they like it. I can work very quickly, while somebody is getting people ready. This way B&G have more time to spend with their guests, family and friends don't feel tired and bored waiting. Works for me every time.

[nstock]

I didn't pay attention to the # of shots and the size of the card. Regardless of how much you shot on this job or whether or not the bride was happy, you need to shoot RAW.

 

You have all this great equipment and you might as well shoot with a P&S if you are going to shoot Jpegs!!!!

 

From what you are saying if sounds like you had 'em covered for shots etc. A list is good but you absolutely have to have a person who knows the ppl at the wedding go and round up the folks on the list or you won't know who you need to get. I use the best man and maid of honor for these jobs, if I can.

 

But really and serioulsy, you do need to shoot RAW, fix and convert to TIFF and when it is all said and done you can compress 'em into Jpegs.

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

Admitedly as David Schilling states you need to cover key people. As far as the bride requesting shots, no she shouldn't have to. BUT by not trying to solicit her preferences or guidlines in advance would be the same as hiring a builder to construct a house with out your input. He should just add room willy nilly so he's cover.

 

Dave, I continue to benefit from your experience but dude, asking to be sure so you dont miss cousin Sven who paddled his way over from Iceland is only common sense.

 

If she can't, doesn't, won't or forgets to share such info then it becomes a responsibility to shoot everyone you see thus live on your wits. Without prior knowledge how is the photographer supposed to identify the terminally ill aunt out of 150 people.

 

It does not seem apparent that such a "list" or prompt is out of line within the industry. My oldest daughter has given me all kinds of wedding planning information and there are multiple sources that advocate that the bride lists out the photo "must haves". They even supply check lists to this effect. I think it would be prudent to make a note on the contract that the bride said "Naw that's okay its up to you." Next Saturday 1st big solo wedding: bride gave me a list and the bride for a September wedding did the same. Its practical.

 

Oh, I like my doctor because on every visit he never asks whats wrong. I shouldn't have to tell him he's a pro.

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

I reread Aden"s post to see that the Bride complained of no immediate family and friends. Of course this is hands down compulsory content the attendants Ma, Pa, grandma, grandpa, auntie Betty etc. BUT do you really know the immediate friends from not so immediate friends?

[david_schilling___chicago_]

"You have all this great equipment and you might as well shoot with a P&S if you are going to shoot Jpegs!!!!" -Nancy

 

Let's see, Yervant, Pfister, and myself all shoot JPGs,...so you think we might just as well use a P&S camera? While I'm not claiming that my images are as good as theirs, I do think I'm in good company. Do we really need to keep throwing the RAW -vs- JPG card out there? In this situation, I don't care how many megapixels he's shooting, how much the equipment cost or how good his lenses are. At least half of what a pro wedding shooter does has nothing to do with equipment, technology or technique.

[nstock]

You know, I used to shoot Jpegs. Then I got into shooting RAW and it was much closer to shooting Medium format. I could not believe the difference and the detail and all of that. RAW just gives you so much more picture for your effort.

 

I never cared one way or t'other then I tried t'other way. It is a little more work to fiddle with RAW but the results are, IMO, so much better.

 

If I really want good results, I still shoot Medium Format Film. The only thing better for detail is large format. I will tout Medium format over 35 mm and I will tout RAW over Jpegs and I do so in both instances for the same reason.. more information on the capture medium.

 

Then again, I do a lot of other work besides weddings where enlargement of the image is important to me.

 

If you want to shoot jpegs, go ahead. Carry on. Watever.

 

I do suggest you fiddle around a bit with RAW and see for yourself what you get. I did.

[picturesque]

While I agree that Aden was maybe overly sensitive to the bride's comment at the time, considering his considerable work and care, I do think some of the people replying are a little hard on him. Seems he did photograph the required formals and portraits of the bride's family, so none of that was missed. It was probably an offhand comment by the bride prompted by the last point I made in my post above. I have run across that before, although I make it a point to tell couples ahead of time that if they don't tell me (either themselves or through a contact person) who is important (by name) there is a good chance I could miss those people. I can't possibly cover every single person at the wedding to the degree necessary to get good candids. In fact, I use as an example, photographing "the guys from work" or "fraternity or sorority members" when talking about important people likely to be missed if not pointed out. Aden obviously worked hard and got great images--I don't think his efforts were lacking. I just think he was blindsided by an offhand comment that might have been addressed with pre-wedding communication. Or not, since I also have run across couples who, even when "warned" about telling me who is important, don't get around to it in the pre-wedding chaos.

[jmichaelc]

Next time just shoot an extreme wide angle..... and with that large mega pixal camera, you can just crop out those that are important within the mix.

 

Ooh and yes, RAW will help you here :)

 

All kidding aside, fufill your contact. What did it say? Does it say that you will capture eveyone that is important to them if you do not even know who that is? I hope not.

 

I provide a wedding planner that goes along with my contract where the B/G documents key guests that they wish to be captured. I also ask for the B/G to provide a contact person that i call the "Sheppard". The sheppard is a person that is familiar with both sides of the family and who has agreed to work with us providing us with helpful information such that we will not have to bother the B/G on their wedding day. This Sheppard points us into the right direction as to who the key guests are.

[kevin_blow]

I got married nearly thirteen years ago and my wife and I thought we had 'nailed' down the photos we wanted. We even provided a list of all the additional photos we wanted. What we got was pictures of B+G and the additional photos (no traditional ones with family groupings etc which we had asked for). You can appreciate my wife was deeply upset. You do not get a second chance.

 

As has already been pointed out communication and understanding are essential, so that both parties know what is expected and are in agreement about it. It is all too easy for B or G to think of shots they would have liked after the event and no matter how good you are, you are not a mind reader. However good planning can reduce the risk of problems occuring. It can be benificial (you probably do this anyway) to take examples of your work showing the different styles e.g. trad or reportage and groupings etc, that way the B+G can have a better understanding of what they are getting.

 

A number of posts have indicated just how beneficial it can be to have an assistant. The photographer at our wedding could certianly have used one.It can take pressure off you and lessen the chance that you are running around like a 'blue arsed fly' (its a Brit thing). You might even get something to eat!.

 

I have shot (?endured) a couple of weddings for friends and family because they could not afford a photographer. Even with my wifes help it was tiring and stressful and I certianly would not want to do it for a living. I was fortunate that any missed shots (which I tried to avoid), whether 'real' or 'perceived' i.e. thought they had asked for them was 'just one of those things'. In your position you are not afforded that luxury.

 

My advice (such as it is) would be to learn what lessons you can from the experience and from the various posts and put them into practice. Your pride will recover soon enough from the knock that it has taken.

 

Regards,

 

Kevin

[ed_braconnier]

Go Here

www.aljacobs.com

 

download this and read it

DOWNLOAD PDF WEDDING HAND GUIDE FOR THE BEGINNER

 

A/ The Bride and MOB are always right...

B/ See A

 

Included in this wonderful read from wonderful Al is a comprehensive list of shots... I added a bit to it and have my bride and groom high light what they want and go from there.There are also a few cut and paste contracts..

4GB = Not enough.... 16 GB = Good / Shots Taken 1200 to 1400 RAW /Proofs 600 to 800.

Gear.. a little more than your 12.8 mega fantastic.. But they don't care I do...

After about 100 or so weddings you will have time to eat..because your $100 for the night assistant will be walking around with a 20d and a 430 flash set on P taking table shots while you concentrate on being artistic..

 

Cheers,

Eddy

 

PS Get a thick Skin... it's a tough Bizz

[JohnWebster]

Manage the bride and groom's expectations before the wedding day when you fill out the info card. Know the first name of the parents, sibs, their spouses or significant others, the wedding party, number of people in extra groups such as work friends, school friends, and special people or special combinations. If the family tree is complicated and the couple wants an almost impossible number of combos--put it on the couple to have someone from each side of the family be responsibile for making sure you get those shots. It is their responsibility to make sure that those people are herded together and ready to step in promptly---cause if they aren't there when you call them it is not you fault that the request gets missed. In closing, this is a good time to know Photoshop---create some of the missed groups from what you do have by cutting and pasting the people on an "ART PAGE". I have saved myself with photoshop more times than I care to admit.

[medina photography cherry]

Hey buddy just a word of caution. These rants on photo.net (I have doen them myself) for some reason find their way onto google when someone does a search for your name. I vented about a bridesmaid 1 time and it popped up on my name search. I don't want prospective brides to think I am a complainer-even though I am-nah just kidding. So just be careful. I would like to know how you could give them all of that for $1500? Also, maybe you could help me by designing some albums for my clients!

 

Thanks

Rob Medina

[larry schaefer - chicago,]

"After about 100 or so weddings you will have time to eat..because your $100 for the night assistant will be walking around with a 20d and a 430 flash set on P taking table shots while you concentrate on being artistic.."

 

OHhh Eddy!

[conraderb]

aden - sounds like you didn't have a good idea of what your friend/client wanted in the first place.

 

poeople don't value your time. nor your L lenses and other fancy gear. nor your knowledge of photography. what they want is a picture of their friends. if you get it, great. the stuff above is just icing on the cake.

[buckry]

I always take 2 shots of every table at the reception. Generally they are round tables, so I take one shot of each side. They're not great shots, and I don't think any couple has every purchased an enlargement of one, but I'm getting the shots just in case.

[david_eicher]

Dang, 680 photos and you missed something!!!?? I have never shown anyone more than 180 photos tops. Of course, I don't charge $1500 either. Sounds like a picky bride, but you really should always have imediate family shots with B & G after immediantly after ceremony. As to table shots. I have found hardly anyone wants them later due to half eaten food and cigarette smoke (if allowed) in photo. If I have a bride request them of every table I tell them there is a minimum 5 x 7 order for each table.

[William Michael]

Aden:

 

This is a long thread and I might be wasting my time responding, but in the hope you [and others] are still reading and are receptive to criticism here goes.

 

I am retired professionally, having personally done in excess of 1500 weddings. We used film, but that matters not for this comment.

 

The way we did weddings may not be everyone`s cup of tea, but the basic theory is solid so let me outline.

 

I used 645 and 6x7 on site and 6x7 and 5x4 in the studio and took portable [mains powered] flash on site.

 

I would interview [about two hours] the bride and groom [and the person paying for it] about a month or 6 weeks before the wedding, where we would discuss what was required the ceremony and any special requests and they would then pay a deposit equal to 66% of the total fee.

 

The client bought prints on top of the fee; they had the option to pre purchase a package of prints in various sizes at a reduced rate (25% saving) at the interview.

 

If they did not want to come to the interview or pay the 66% of the fee, I would not be available to shoot their wedding.

 

I would thoroughly research the locations prior to the day and would always have a helper, sometimes two on the day, with me.

 

Yes, over 30 odd years, we had a few stuff ups.

 

One monumental stuff up, when there was an huge error and our diary method and we missed a wedding. We did not show up at all, and I was shooting canoes down rapids and was not contactable.

 

My business - My fault, the clients were angry - but in the end had really nothing but praise for our business and me personally, because I gave them no option.

 

Before I contacted them I had re booked the Church, Reception and had contacted the Florist, Cars and Bridal Clothes Hire Company and as many guests as I could and put them all on hold.

 

We reshot the entire day, all at my cost and I supplied champagne for all to drink. Thankfully the guest list was only about 45 people.

 

I kept the 66% deposit as fee in full, and allowed any number of prints to be bought at the 25% discount rate.

 

Now, I do not imply that you have made an error like what I have described, but if you are receptive here is a critique as I see it:

 

1. You are a professional wedding photographer: by definition you entered into a contract.

 

Then as such, you would never turn up with out a back up camera body, or perhaps two extra cameras. Similarly you will never arrive at a wedding shoot with out your back up assistant, who IS RESPONSIBLE mainly for shooting 35mm `posed` but `candid` shots of everything that moves, dances, is intoxicated wherever the bride is and in every people combination available and lots of them - the assistant does not eat, nor go to the toilet, nor miss anything with his or her TWO 35mm bodies and TWO on camera flashes.

 

2. You are responsible for the PROFESSIONAL PORTRAITURE that no one else at the wedding is able to take, that is why they hired you.

 

3. Neither the Bride nor anyone else, unless they are the techno head nerd, cares what equipment you have; they do not care, nor do I, they only want the results you promised prior to the wedding and they might want a bit more too, which they did not and will not articulate: read on

 

4. As a professional Wedding Photographer your most important tool is not your camera, nor extensive photographic training nor your ability to do fancy post production work, nor a passion to show off your new 55mmF0.95 piece of glass that is worth $6,000.

 

Your primary objective is to get high quality outcomes from your finely honed ability to communicate with the key people at the wedding, extract from them what is required, control all the want a be photographers getting in your way, and to ensure at all costs a record the day as special, forever.

 

In the story that you outlined above, it is my opinion you have fallen down in regard to the four points I outlined above.

 

Above all, if you are a Professional Wedding Photographer, you must understand what business you are in, and it is certainly NOT running helter skelter all day taking 700 photographs with the latest hi tech gear.

 

If that is what you want to do, then stay a friend to the bride and groom and just turn up to their wedding and snap away when you like, give the a copy of the shots you like and enjoy the night.

 

I hope this is received in the sincere tone it was written, if it is not then I strongly urge you to look at another endeavour, because if there is not a large attitudinal and mind change from you, shooting weddings will only cause you much greater grief than you have already experienced.

 

Regards WW