Why the bad shot with 17-40mm f4?

[jonathan_gentry]

Guys,

 

I've been having a bad time with my 17-40 f4 L lense. I've compared it to

shots with the 70-200 f4 L and the results seem much worse (for the former.)

 

I am attempting to post a link to an example of a shot that was taken indoors

with a flash at a 100% crop. I would love for you to evaluate the image and

tell me where the problem is. Here are the specs:

 

Canon 20D

1/60 sec

F/5.0

ISO 400

Focal 25mm

Lense 17-40mm L f4

Shot in program mode

Resolution 240

Shot in RAW mode with camera default development in photoshop RAW.

 

Here is the link:

http://www.potomacbass.com/otherimages/17-40f4.jpg

 

Please let me know what to do differently... or if the lense is at fault here.

 

-Jonathan

[mars c]

I think whats wrong with your picture is, there is too much noise. WHat iso setting did you use with it anyway? Try aperture priority mode with iso 100 and using a tripod and self timer, look if the result is still the same.

[mars c]

oops, I missed to see, its iso 400. by the way, Do you have other lens with similar focal lenght to compare it to?

[delwyn_ching]

It could be:

1. Your focusing scheme, e.g., evaluative, average, etc. Follow your owner's manual.

2. Your focusing via center, ai servo, etc? Check your owner's manual.

 

good luck

[jonathan_gentry]

It was on a tripod. I am using the center focus (center red square lights only.) Flash was a Speedlight 580ex with diffuser down about 15-20 ft away.

[PuppyDigs]

I see a several things that appear to be operator error.

 

1) AF locked on the woman's blouse in the center as it is sharp. However those behind the

point of focus are a little softer. The fix: use a tripod and remote release and stopdown a

little more. Even ADEP mode would probably nail it.

 

2) WB is pretty funky. Adjust WB prior to conversion to TIFF. Next time you might wanta

pose them outside or use your Speedlite as a main light rather than as fill.

 

3) The image is a bit noisy. Try ISO 100 or 200 and a tripod.

[jonathan_gentry]

puppy face: Thanks for the response. I was on a tripod. I'm not sure about stopping down anymore as I already see movement especially on one of the guys ears (though I probably could have if I had not used the flash diffuser which cuts the amount of light, probably a mistake.) White balance does not seem to correct the issue when I try to adjust in RAW development. I can only think that your on to something with the noise and I should move to 100 or 200 ISO. The colors are just horrible though and adjusting in RAW doesn't seem to help. Could it be my UV filter screwing up my lense? It's a Quantaray.

 

Thanks!

[steven_fuller1]

Get outside and run a card full of test shots on a sunny day.. Use a tripod.

Use autofocus at "P" setting. Shoot buildings or something with distinct edges

or patterns. And then just check out your photos at 100% on Viewer Utility. I

doubt it's a lens problem. More likely a lighting and/or losing resolution in

photoshop when importing.

[PuppyDigs]

Even with a tripod you can introduce a little movement when pressing the shutter. The

remote or self timer helps a lot.

 

If you use M mode and stopdown enough to underexpose

ambient a couple stops the flash will serve as the main light rather than fill,

making WH

easier to control. The flash duration is extremely fast so subject movement isn't a

problem.

 

What Speedlite were you using? My 20D needs +1/3 to 2/3 FEC in a similar situation.

Besides

helping WH, a little more flash will give the image more "pop."

[eric_lawson1]

Aside from the noise I have had some problems like this when shooting scenes with mixed skin tones especially if they vary greatly. Did you try with any other lens? You could sort of rule out a lens problem if you got the same results with a different lens.

[jonathan_gentry]

Puppyface: I use the 580ex

Eric: My only other lense is the 70-200L. Nothing in the same range.

 

I have shot outside in natural light and found better color with the 70-200L lense when adjusting position to the target to get the same crop. I get better resolution, better color and more contrast with the longer lense. Is that normal? Maybe I just have a bad copy.

[ci_p]

Am I missing something? What is the main light source?

[mazza]

Use a smaller f.stop like 8 or 11 and focus manual if its on a tripod anyway. easy as that.

[pjmeade]

Just a thought.

 

Is the shot under exposed and then subject to Camera RAW's built in settings? Camera RAW tends to make shots look noisy and lacking in contrast if the starting image is under exposed.

 

Cheers. Pete

[zacker]

try it at f11 with all focus points activated and try it in A-DEP mode... also, a tripod is king here..I knlw because I have some serious issues with camera shake and i have also found that while center focus is great sometimes, it absolutly stinks at others. I have recently tried some stuff like landscapes and such in adep and in TV or AV and even M withall focus points on and there was a huge difference!

good luck!

you got a great cam and a great lens, its just the learning curve i suspect..take the time to "Learn" the lens with the camera.

-zacker-

[mars c]

It is likely your uv filter screwed up the image, I've tried several filter on my lens in a controlled test. the best filter tend to only slightly darken the image, the worst filter not only darkens the image, but also softened the corners. you should do this test with a tripod, mirror lock up, self timer and with no flash, cause the flash system tends to compensate when it sees a darker image. I hope this helps : )

[sheldonnalos]

Puppy Face has the right answer, IMHO. I shoot a great deal with the 20D, 17-40mm and 550EX flash for indoor people shots and get consistently sharp results. Here's my additional thoughts...

 

1. Since you were in Program mode, I'm pretty sure that the camera would have defaulted to 1/60 and f/4.0 (not f/5.0). If that's the case it explains a little more of the softness, since it would be wide open on the 17-40mm.

 

2. The tripod is great for composition, but once you start using the flash as your sole lighting source you can shoot handlheld with no problems. Camera shake is essentially taken out of the equation since the flash burst is of such short duration. I shoot entirely handheld when shooting indoors with flash and never have a problem with camera shake or subject movement.

 

3. Here is my recipe for good indoor shots when shooting with flash. Manual Mode, 1/125 second shutter speed, f/5.6 aperture, ISO 200, Flash exposure compensation of +1/3 stop. Then, you point the flash head straight up at the ceiling (or just slightly angled forward) to bounce the flash onto your subject. I also use the reflector card/diffuser pulled out about 1/2 way to bounce a little direct light onto the subject (knocks down shadows under the eyes and adds a catchlight reflection as well).

 

Finally I would say that your Quantaray filter probably isn't helping matters, so put a nicer UV filter on your expensive lens (Hoya SMC, B+W, Heliopan, etc).

 

Try this out, you will be amazed at the difference it makes in your photos.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Sheldon

[patrick mckenna]

Hi there, I would tend to agree with Peter Meade. I have in the past seen results similar to this from ACR. - Under exposed images, possibly due to the flash distance to subject, are automatically adjusted by Adobe Camera Raw to create a more 'normal' histogram. Patrick

[sheldonnalos]

Oh, I also noticed that you were using a diffuser on the flash (Stofen, I assume). Try my suggestions without the diffuser and see which effect you prefer. I found that the bounce flash gave better results for me, and don't use my Stofen anymore. A diffuser basically converts your flash into a "bare bulb" style flash, which is still too direct for my tastes. Your preferences may vary, so try both out and see which one you like.

[sheldonnalos]

Oh, and to answer your other question regarding why your 17-40mm isn't as good as your 70-200mm....

 

Wide angle lenses are much harder to design and build than telephoto lenses. It's pretty much universally true that most telephoto lenses are sharper than most wide angle lenses. I found that to be true with my 17-40mm and 70-200mm f/4 L. The 17-40mm is a good lens, but the 70-200mm will give better results.

[lovcom_photo]

The image is too noisy and the colors are really funky.

 

This is what I think happened: The exposure was 1.5 to 2 stops under and so you adjusted exposure in post processing, but bumping it up that much will cause all the noise and weird color and/or white balance issues.

[jon_austin]

Some great advice given by Sheldon Nalos. I would just like to add that I follow the same approach for bouncing flash (with reflector, if needed) when the ceiling is white and "close" (i.e., no more than 10-12' high). When the ceiling is higher or not white, I'll use a diffuser like the OmniBounce to soften the light and avoid color cast.

[lovcom_photo]

Jon, agree, but one thing...you'd be surprised how well a bounce off a ceiling even 20-30 feet high will work. I didn't believe it myself till I did it during a wedding.

[jim_simon3]

Jonathan,

The answers that suggest Camera RAW is pushing the exposure are super-good. Now you need to say whether or not ACR did change the exposure. Try clicking off all the adjustments and see what you get. sometimes ARC will knock down the exposure and push up the brightness and that doesn't work well either. We have all missed the exposure and found that messing with a 400 ISO too much ends up with a photo such as yours. The shame is when ARC decides how to fix the photo and takes it from marginal to trash.

[jonathan_gentry]

Thanks for all your opinions on this.

 

Here's a bit more information...

 

Sheldon: By Diffuser I mean the built in element that swings down over the bulb of the flash. Not Stofen. Am I using the wrong term? Thanks for the great suggestions Sheldon!

 

Camera RAW was set at "Camera Default" purposly to eliminate it as a source of the problem.

 

One problem I have in the P (Program) mode is that I thought it would default the flash as the main light source. That's what I wanted so how do I make it so? Mazza suggested above to go with F8 or F11. Can I adjust to this aperture manually in P mode? I didn't think I could.

 

Should I be shooting the flash in ETTL mode with no adjustments?

 

 

Thanks for all the help guys. I have a wedding coming up for a friend and I really need to get these indoor settings working for me.

 

-Jonathan