73highboy Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Hi, I recently had a step sister get married and she hired a professional photographer. this was the pro's second wedding. like all weddings my wife and i go to my wife likes to have pictures. this wedding the professional did not like us taking pictures that she posed, she did not say anything but you could tell she did not like others taking pictures and quiqly change poses before anyone could take a picture. this was the first time this has happened to me. I have not been to a wedding in a long time and this was the first time i have taken pictures of a wedding with my digital camera. Before i used a 35mm slr and the pro had a medium format camra and they were nice enough to step aside and let all the amatures take snap shots. but now that i have a 30d and i have a camera similar to most pros. is this getting be a problem with a modern weddings having others taking shots that pros have posed. do others say not to take pictures or do the pros just grin a bear it knowing that is part of being a professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rcoder Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I was in a similar situation recently: a friend's sister was getting married, and since my friend knew I was a semi-serious amateur photographer, they asked me if I would be willing to come take pictures of the wedding in addition to the professional they were hiring. My response was a tentative "yes," on the condition that they tell the pro and get his okay. It actually worked very well, as I was able to stick around and get a number of nice candids shots during the pre-wedding prep and reception afterwards. However, I was sure to back off during the actual ceremony, and didn't try to shadow him during the formals. Planning and setting up for the shoot is a fair bit of work, and I didn't feel it would be terribly fair to piggy-back on his preparation to make my own shots look better. Interestingly, I was only one of about four guests at the relatively small wedding with a dSLR; I think the inflection point for market penetration has really been reached, and the gear alone is no longer any sort of indicator of experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Naka Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Unless they kick out everyone with a camera, you will always have someone trying to shoot the pose the hired pro just did. This is nothing new, I took my Nikon F to family weddings over 20 years ago and did not get any hassles from the pros. The F back then was not a consumer camera, I was shooting with pro gear, just not a Hasselblad. And the Strobonar 800 was not a dinky consumer shoe flash, just not in the same class as a Norman. Never had a problem with any of the pros. If the pro obviously tries to change the pose before people can shoot their shot they are risking referal business. On the other hand, the pro has a time table and has to get the shots done within the time allocated, she can't wait for everyone to get their shots or she won't finish. I did talk to a couple of new shooters and they were talking about clauses in their contract prohibiting ALL other photography, so only they would have the only photos of the wedding. Now that is unrealistic and I have no idea how they would enforce that clause. And if the pro was like these guys she is pretty insecure and wants all the $ she can. BTW when this happens, people will simply shoot before or as she is shooting. They won't give her the curtosey of shooting first as the hired pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annealmasy Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Mike, While your sister's photographer may have been a pro, it sounds like she wasn't a professional WEDDING photographer. Photographers who make a living shooting weddings tend to have a different attitude toward the entire experience. Other photographers (such as those specializing in portrait, commercial, or corporate event work) likely will have a different ethic and may not respond well to guests who want to "take advantage" of their posed shots. When you're a guest at a wedding, just be aware that the photographer has been paid for his or her time and talant. Try not to get in the way of the bride and groom's chosen photographer! It will frustrate not only the photographer, but also the bride and groom who have invited you as a guest! It's a shame that the photographer at this wedding acted the way she did. But don't misunderstand your own role at the wedding: to support the newlyweds! "Interfering" in the photography may frustrate more than just the photographer, and I know that would never be your intention! Best, Anne Almasy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mister_lane Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 There are a lot of variables here. Many wedding pros get frustrated by guest photography, but not if it's done right. What's done wrong? - Using a flash. If you're shooting with a flash while the pro is shooting, you are going to ruin pictures the bride & groom are paying a lot of money for. - Getting in the way. This pretty much includes a 180' arc in front of the pro - if a pro is shooting handheld with a wide angle and steps back and your elbow gets in the way, it's a ruined picture. I've seen pros handle this different ways. Some simply stand aside until the amateurs are done shooting, and won't shoot while others have cameras out. This usually recruits the bride & groom to shoo people. The best approach, in my opinion, is educating the B&G beforehand. Someone before suggested a "missed shots" gallery - an album to show the bride & groom BEFORE the wedding of shots that were screwed up by the interference of camera-toting guests - blown out by external flash, or simply in the way. This, plus the suggestion of assigning to the best man the job of "amateur wrangler", can help keep amateurs safely out of the way, with their flash off - and everyone ends up happy. Put simply, a wedding pro should never put him/herself in the position of having to shoo guests - pros at weddings are "the help", and you want to always appear friendly & helpful. It sounds like this pro hadn't educated her B&G about her guest shooting preferences, hadn't recruited anyone to help her, and was trying to deal with it on the spot by being passive agressive... not usually good for business. Hope this helped! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agaimages Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I recently shot a wedding where the uncle was a serious amateur. He actually had the same camera and a better flash to be exact. He shot along me, and did his own thing. We briefly spoke about photography (he told me his story that he used to have darkroom in his house and was into photography longer than I live). He was a nice guy, and I thought to myself if he gets some great photos, good! They'll have more memories. I thought of worry and intimidation did pass through my head (after all he is was doing photography since the 60's!). But he was nice and did step aside when I asked him kindly during the cake cutting, not that I did not want him to shoot but I needed the "main" spot. To make long story short; I've seen his photos and while they're nice, the whole does not compare to what I did. This is a little off topic, but being a professional photographer you need to have confidence in yourself (or at least show that you do when in slight doubt � I'm sure every one is once in a while) that you're the MAIN photographer at the same time let others have "their share" in the fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcorridan Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 the pro is also hired to move things along during the formals in a orderly fashion. did he/she only have 20 min.? was the wedding late? does he depend on some reprint buiss for his salary? too many variables... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie_caswell Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm just a second shooter, and only once did I get really annoyed. Eventually his highend P+S camera died on the dance floor as the B+G waited, and waited...and he went away. When they start toting a stroboframe mounted SB800 and a 17-55 on their D200, then I might get offended. I even grab their P+S and snap pics for them. Be friendly, be firm, and keep them happy. One bad experience from a guest might harm referral business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie_caswell Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I think its fun and adds interest too shoot the LCD of the guests P+S snapping the B+G. Sometimes receptions get really long and repetitive, and I look for something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austinphoto Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Any photographer who is upset over other people taking photos at a wedding ought to get a life. As a photographer, I'm the one who is getting paid! If others want to take photos, rathat than being rude, I alway cooperate. It makes for a better atmosphere. I still get paid. That's it! Why not be nice? We're here to work. Let's make it pleasent. We don't need to protect our domain. We know we're professional. Let's behave as such! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_ Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Putting the shoe on the other foot: suppose the photographer decided to let you 'pose' the next set of formals _ giving you 60 seconds to gather up the folks and be ready to shoot. Think that would have put you (the guest) in a better frame of mind? And it is not likely that if your wife has a oven and a set of cake pans that she would bring along a second wedding cake _ just in case! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vcallaway Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 For me it depends on my time table. I did a wedding friday where the bride wanted a ton of photos done before the ceremony. We had a small group following that wanted to get pictures as well. I just let them know that they were welcome to take photos but they would only have a few seconds after each setup for them to shoot. Everyone understood and things went smoothly. We actually finished a few minutes ahead of schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 If you were a chef, creating your signature dish and one of the restaurant guests stepped into your kitchen and started to write down your 'secret recipe', how would you feel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73highboy Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 as far as time goes there was time to allow for "guest" pictures. and there were only 3 of us taking pictures. myself, the brides mother and ther grooms aunt, they had p & s cameras the are perfect for the red eye efect. i think alot of the problem is it was her second wedding and she was unorganized, and yes i was very considerate and polite, i know she was under pressure and had to get her shots so i let her do her thing and waited until the reception. i guess my question is. do alot more photographers expect to make money selling prints on a website so they want to limit others from taking pics. and my personal feeling is a perfessional should have better lighting, skill and creativity to outperform the amatures, and most weddings i have been to the photographer was happy to let others take his posed shots as long as they have waited for him or her to taker their shot. for to most part many pros i have delt with love photography and dont mind others to share in there passion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conraderb Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I think that back in teh day, when most photographers relied quite a bit on reprints orders as part of the wedding income, it was a bit more important for the photograhper to prevent other guests. nowadays, so many clients get their images on CD, reprints are not as important overall. I always tell my clients that at this point, my interest is shooting their wedding and doing a great job. after that, they are free to get prints, or not get prints, to buy an album, or to not buy an album. I really don't care - my interest is in shooting the wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt_needham Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I let people shoot away, but if I could have my way there are two reasons I don't like guests shooting when I'm trying to do the posed portraits: 9 times out of 10 we're already running late, and every extra person in the vicinity is a distraction, particularly if they are yelling "look over here, and say cheese!". I end up taking ten shots of the same group trying to get everyone looking at my camera. If the B & G schedule plenty of time, and no one is late, then I'm all for letting the guests take as many photos as they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliot1 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I love when other people shoot posed shots with me. Many times, after I have taken the shots I need and they finish their shots, everyone loosens up, laughs, etc. - that is when I usually get my best shots. I get so many beautiful photos of real smiling faces that way - much more interesting than those fake 'cheese' smiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_schilling___chicago_ Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 The family/guests are an important part of the day. I don't mind them shooting at all...it comes with the job. I don't know that a photographer that is shooting their 2nd wedding actually qualifies for the title of a pro..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiva Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Be sure to get a few shots of the other photographers ... they're part of the wedding story for the bride and groom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillip hurd - atlanta ga Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Mike, When I shoot a wedding I have usually spent 40+ hours planning my sequence of shots. I tell the B+G I need to be the only photographer during the ceremony and give them incentive to make it that way. Once a reception starts I don't really care about who is taking what shot. My experience has been that 99.5% of all P+S shooters never leave the full auto setting. Their shots look like crap and they are likely to spend there lives going "How did he get that great shot and I didn't?" The reason that I don't want any one else shooting during the ceremony is that I have a specific series of pictures that I have planned and been paid to get. If mom/uncle bob/etc... want to take pictures during theis time they are in fact defeating the purpose of hiring a Pro and blowing the B/Gﾒs money by doing so. I have a responsibility to my client to do the best that I can for them in what always seems to be an impossible time frame. "Hoverers" as I call them can wreak havoc on a time line and will ruin positioned/posed images. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_taylor____mequon__wi Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 "When I shoot a wedding I have usually spent 40+ hours planning my sequence of shots..." Huh? Can this be correct? I've never heard of anything like this. That's more time than Bush spent planning the Iraqui invasion. Please elaborate, if you would. I am truly curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim_marby Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 To all the people that think they have a right to photograph alongside the pro: We make our living photographing weddings, many of us have spent considerable time learning how to pose a group or an individual properly, and weather we are outdoors or in the studio it is our photograph. I make part of my living from selling reprints and having any of the guests 'steal' my set up is wrong. You wouldn't think of standing behind me in my studio taking photos, then why at a wedding? Besides, other flashes have sometimes affected my photos, and the subjects are looking all over which doesn't make for a very good photograph. I give the guests time to take photos after I'm entirely done with the groups and the B&G but my time with them is a private session. If I see the parents of the bride or groom pull out a little camera and take a few shots I don't say anything, after all it's their children. My contract clearly states that no other people are allowed to photograph the formal sessions and if I have any problems I ask the bride or groom the take care of it, I don't have any confrontations with guests. The couples don't have a problem and they appreciate the fact I do all I can to insure the get professional photograph. I know there are probably a lot of people that will disagree with me but untill you do this for a living I don't think you really will understand. Jim Marby pictureperfectstudio.biz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gardner Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 Hey Mike, I just let them shoot...doesn't bother me a bit. Just have confidence in your shots. Remember..they are family your not. Just be happy and enjoy the day...and NEVER EVER...ask the B&G to do something about it. If this is your primary source in income...and you rely on reprints...with all the digital cameras out there...and prices like $1.00/ 8x10 from Walmart....you had better see the writing on the wall and expect to see the reprints decline. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73highboy Posted July 18, 2006 Author Share Posted July 18, 2006 WOW i think i opened a can of worms here. I can totaly understand a pro photographer not wanting shutterbugs getting in there way and taking shots of there poses. i think the key to that is just like you said and having that in your contract, but if i were hiring a photographer for my own wedding i would not hire one that would not let other take pictures. everyone has a few reletives that like to have snapshots for themselves and that means after the pro is finished you have to do the poses agin for the reletives to keep them happy, mainly the mother of the bride. To me it never seemed like much of an issue before with film. my feeling is a Pro is shooting medium format with strobes and a light meter and the rest of the shuttebugs are using a 35mm with a camera mounted flash. i do agree the shutterbugs have to wait for the pro to get her shot and not get in the way. but now with digital even some of the point and shoot cameras can take some great images and with a little knowlage of photoshop a shutterbug can cut into a Pro's profits. so is it become more common to not alow the amatures access to take pictures and most importantly i think communication is the key. if my 3 year old daugher is the flower girl and i am not allowed to take pictures of her and i find this out at the last minute i would not be happy with the pro and the bride and groom for not telling me before hand. I hope i am not sounding mean. i have great resepect for wedding photographers, it is a tought job with alot of stress but i like to get some shots too. some of us amatures take there camera everywhere to keep a record of what they have done and where they have been, and my wife has an album just of weddings that we have been to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk Posted July 18, 2006 Share Posted July 18, 2006 At the wedding I shot last Saturday there was hardly any Uncle Bob's, but telling the girls to stop might be difficult !!<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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