Choice between Sigma 100-300 + 1.4 or Bigma

[thurisaz]

I've come to a final decision making on zoom choice. Leaning a lot towards

Bigma but I want to hear what your choice would be between these two

solutions, Sigma 100-300 f4 with a Sigma TC 1.4 or Bigma, for wildlife

photography primarly but with some bird photography too.

 

After having seen a lot of pictures taken with both, even though many more

with Bigma, I must say that I'm very impressed with the quality, especially

sharpness, even at extremes, and can't say that the pics I've seen from the

100-300 even without TC are better.

 

Problem with Bigma is that it has or has had an issue with AF on a D200, and

that's the camera I have and I use exactly the personal configuration on the

D200 that disables the AF on the Bigma. I can only hope that the lenses

firmware bug is fixed on any lens I would receive. Does anyone know what the

status is on this now? Lenses sold at BH updated now?

 

So, please help me decide which one of these two solution would be yours.

 

______________________________

 

Visit http://www.care2.com and help out

 

It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value

[armando_roldan]

What the hell is a BIGMA?

[david lloyd]

Both these lenses can be updated by Sigma via firmware update to enable full functionality

with the d200. The update is free. However you may be lucky in that recent batches of

lenses from Sigma are already updated and compatible with the d200. I found out about

my 100-300 by calling Sigma and they said that all of those lenses with a serial beyond

5000000 were ok. My lens was fine. The same I guess for both lenses. Note that this is

firmware, not a re-chip.

 

I have the 100-300 and a 1.4 converter, and I'm very pleased with it. Reviews claim it's the

best and sharpest zoom Sigma has made, and also very very little loss of quality with the

converter. It works very nicely with my new d200,fast and smooth.

[george_lupton]

i have a bigma and love it. very sharp at the long end. very surprised at the quality of the shots it produces. it is ridiculously heavy though.

[thurisaz]

David,

 

Thx, will keep the serial numbering in mind.

Do the Sigma lenses come with cabling for direct firmware upgrade (i.e. not sending it in)?

[mark_chappell]

Tough choice -- you get more focal length, but less speed, with the 50-500 (f6.3 at

500mm is not very fast).

 

Are you sure you want/need a zoom lens? From experience I can tell you that for most

wildlife photography, and especially bird photography, you're going to be using whichever

lens you pick at maximum focal length 99% of the time. And usually you'll be wishing for

more. Have you considered:

 

Nikon 300/4 AFS + 1.4X (probably sharper and smaller than the 100-300 + 1.4X)

 

Sigma 500/4.5 -- considerably more expensive, but a lot more suitable for birds than

either of the two zooms

 

Used 500 Nikon prime (AF or non-AF). Unless you contemplate doing a lot of

photography of fast-moving birds, you can probably get away with no AF.

 

Used 300/2.8 (Nikon, Sigma, etc.) plus 2X converter -- this will yield a 600/5.6, which is

much better than 500/6.3 for nearly all bird photography.

 

Don't forget a STURDY tripod and head...

[david lloyd]

Mats C - No you have to send it in. Sigma have their way of doing it. Sigma here in the UK

told me it would take about a week.

[alex_lofquist]

It's a "big mother" made by Sigma!

[andrew robertson]

I agree with Mark, that you could probably get a lot more value from a used Nikkor.

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

If you can strech it get the 120-300 2.8 first then the 100-300 then the bigma the 120-300 is a far better lens with a convertor than the other two. They were floating around in the ex version (pre dg) a couple of months ago pretty cheaply.

 

the 100-300 is a good lens but looses with the convertor even so it still smokes the bigma.

[hayward]

I have the 50-500mm "Bigma," and I think of it as a 500mm lens that gets shorter in a pinch. The f/6.3 can be frustrating, but the HSM helps a bit. Optically, you can get some good results, but you really need to shoot from a monopod. Using the Bigma with a teleconverter is theoretically possible, but the results in practice are poor. I use a D200 and have had no problems -- what is the "personal configuration" you mention.

[greg s]

"It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value" What?

 

I would take another look along the lines of what Mark suggests. I tend to lean towards 300mm f/4 primes for starters because they are sharp, and so versatile. Even though I have a 500mm prime, I will always keep the 300mm, no matter what. My old Sigma zoom was a nice enough lens, but it is long gone. The 300 prime (plus TC) is going on my next overseas trip. It weighs 3 lbs, fits in a daypack, and is truly sharp and contrasty. Cheers, -Greg-

[thurisaz]

Thanks all.

 

First of all, no, prime is not concidered at all. This is a safari trip during a period with a lot of dust and changing lens is kept to a minimum, so primes are out. It's also a weight issue and money issue. I need to carry around as little as possible and can't afford two camera bodies even. We will be walking quite a lot, it's a safari trip with a personalized itinerary so it's not the usual "drive around in the jeep" itinerary.

 

120-300 is a dream lens but out of my league.

 

Buying second hand is out. First of all my country is small and hard finding whatever you are looking for. Second of all I don't trust anyone and buying something second hand without seeing it first is nothing I do. Been cheated enough in my life. Besides, buying any of these lenses from BH will still give me a profit selling it second hand here later.

 

Mark N.:

You say "the 100-300 is a good lens but looses with the convertor even so it still smokes the bigma". After all the test pics I've seen from both lenses I'm yet to be convinced. If the 100-300 is better is marginally from the pics I've seen but PLEASE, please, send me some links to test pics showing it's best sides and preferably at it's max 300mm and also preferably w a TC 1.4. I know i'ts a nice lens that has got very good reviews and I've read about all of them so I dont need any review links.

 

These are the links to 100-300 test pics I've found showing it off:

naturephotographers.net (the review)

http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17354 (without TC)

 

 

These are the links to 50-500 test pics making quite a convincing show:

http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7126&highlight=moon+shot

http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10782 (even handheld pics w a TC)

http://theswampbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7564 (main thread w many test pics)

http://www.photozone.de/8Reviews/lenses/sigma_50500_463/index.htm (review. These test pics very convincing)

 

Greg:

My quote is implying we are heading for self-destruction despite of us humans so proudly superiorizing ourselves over all other creatures because of our so called intelligence.

 

Thanks Greg and all for your tips. I hope I can get help in finding some links to pictures taken w the 100-300 too.

[thurisaz]

Sorry John Irving, missed answering you in my last post.

 

The issue is if you change the configuration on D200 from doing the autofocus through pressing the shutter button to switching it to the AF-ON button being in charge of autofocus instead. Sigma lenses only seem to react to AF command through the shutter button (the ones with former firmware)

[david lloyd]

Mats C - go to my portfolio here on PN - the flamingo there is taken with my 100-300 with a

1.4. I support your view re safaris and zooms. One article I read recently described that in

some cases 300mm was too long, and so had to resort to a shorter length. Long is often

best, but not absolutely always.

[david lloyd]

Mats C - sorry my (small) portfolio: http://www.photo.net/photos/David Lloyd

[david lloyd]

Darn. That lik didn't work. Try: http://www.photo.net/photos/David%20Lloyd

[thurisaz]

Thx David. Hehe, the forum interface is not the best. No editing.

 

I'm trying not to "think" anymore. Had to order it now so that it gets to my brother in Dubai before he comes here and turn out to be the 50-500. Just hope I get a good sample and get happy with it.

Watching your amazingly sharp and nice flamingo image could get me to start thinking too much again :P Impressive w a 1.4 TC.

One benefit with the Bigma is it's 50-500 (470 actually, I think) range I get without changing lens. With the 100-300 and 1.4 I'd be getting 140-420.

 

Eyes on Africa is one of those sites I trust. Don't know why but he and his information seems professional. He has a listing on which focal lengthes he uses the most.

http://www.eyesonafrica.net/safari-photography.htm

 

I will soon be getting the 18-200 Nikkor for fast moving objekts closer to me and for handheld photography. Heard many say it is quite good and good enough as my second lens for my safari trip.

[andrew robertson]

It only takes a few minutes to clean the sensor, and if you change lenses with the mount

facing down there really is little danger of contamination.

[thurisaz]

I've received anwers now on other forums with photographers having both lenses and Bigma is the better choice according to them. 100-300 with TC will not yield as sharp pics as Bigma unless going to at f11. Have also seen pics and heard from those Bigma users that it's very friendly using it hand held, very nice balance. Unless you're more than average shaky or very weak, it works fine hand held in normal daylight, and receiving sharp great shots. Just check the links I've posted earlier for proof (unless you decide not to trust the posters).

 

Changing lens not being a problem on a dusty safari is the first time I heard. I'd count it to 98% av ppl having been on a dusty safari NOT recommending changing lenses. Also, most would say that cleaning the CCD should not be done my anyone but experts. I got some equipment for doing this myself though but would not want to do this every night at the camp because I've been changing lens 10 times a day in the dust. Very few recommend any primes at all for wildlife on safari anyway. I go with majority on this.

 

Peter:

15kg backpack is light for me. I'm well trained and I'm sure I'll make that weight limit.

Anyways, thanks for your input :) My pics you'll have to wait for until earliest November 2007 though.

[hayward]

Re: supporting the Bigma. I've never been a tripod user and when I started shooting long lenses (first a 300mm f/4 Nikon with a 1.4xTC) and then the Sigma 50-500, I didn't use any support and got some good pictures, but I got many bad ones, too. After six months of handheld, I started using a sturdy Bogen monopod and my keeper rate went up dramatically. I also tend to use an SB-800 flash to help deal with the slow f/6.4.

[mark_chappell]

<I>Also, most would say that cleaning the CCD should not be done my anyone but

experts. I got some equipment for doing this myself though but would not want to do this

every night at the camp because I've been changing lens 10 times a day in the dust. Very

few recommend any primes at all for wildlife on safari anyway. I go with majority on

this.</i><P>

 

Cleaning the sensor is not difficult and certainly does not require the services of an expert.

Unless you get something really nasty on it (sticky fluid, for example), it is quite

straightforward to clean it. I live in an area that gets quite dusty at times and when I go

out for a day of photography, I'm sure I change lenses (or add or remove teleconverters,

extension tubes, etc.) at least as frequently as 10 times/day. Dust is simply not a big

concern. The occasional dust spot is just part of the deal with DSLRs -- just like dust and

scractches were occasional facts of life with film cameras. And LOTS of people

recommend primes for safari work -- especially if you want the best possible quality,

particularly for bird photography.

[thurisaz]

Mark:

 

This is actually the only forum, of more than 20 that I've checked out about African safari trip tips, that says primes should be concidered primarly. I'd love to see an experienced safari photographer point out that one should chose that over a zoom when going for an African safari tour. Most safaris to Africa are big mammal safaris, and so is mine. I know that for bird photography a prime is the only thing that goes.

It's one thing if you work for say National Geographic, Discovery, etc. They got the means to carry and pay for all, but as a turist you will have a weight limit, especially on the small national planes you have to take. You also will have to be changing lenses a lot, compared to using a zoom, and will be missing out on many great shots because of that. Again, if you have a lot of money you could have more than one body and I'd love having a good second body but can't afford that.

 

On the cleaning issue. I've never cleaned the sensor and I'd be greatful if you'd give me some tips on both how to do it and what kind of equipment you'd recommend for that.

I'd guess to access it all I have to do is lift the mirror! ? But what is the best equipment to use?

 

Btw, I do thank you for your prime lens guide though. My fault not specifying more in detail my needs. The guide is most informative and will be usefull for me for other trips.

[mark_chappell]

<I>On the cleaning issue. I've never cleaned the sensor and I'd be greatful if you'd give me

some tips on both how to do it and what kind of equipment you'd recommend for that. I'd

guess to access it all I have to do is lift the mirror! ? But what is the best equipment to use?

</I><P>

 

Search on this forum, the EOS forum, the digital forum... I use the Visible Dust sensor

brush + a big blower bulb. You will need a fully charged battery, but it takes maybe 2

minutes.<P>

 

I still don't buy the 'only use a zoom' argument, especially if your concern is image quality.

There are some excellent zoom lenses but they don't cover a huge focal length range,

typically 70-200 or the excellent Nikon 200-400. So if

you use those exclusively, you aren't going to be getting any wideangle/scenic shots. The

Sigma

50-500 is pretty good for what you pay, but I've seen shots from it and it is simply not in

the same league as a good prime in the 300-500 range. FWIW, I've been to Kenya and

Tanzania, and the vast majority of my best photos were taken with a 560 mm lens (on

film). I did shoot a few very tame animals (lions, etc.) with shorter lenses, but not all that

many.

[chris haake]

Gee, I would have thought the 300-800mm as the "Bigma."