Canon quits film business (actually Canon thinks about halting development of future film cameras)

[bobatkins]

Not likley.

 

When a company says "we're thinking about doing something", it usually means they have decided to do it. Why else would they talk about it. It's just a softer way of breaking the news.

 

I think it's pretty obvious that there's no longer much money to be made in the consumer based film camera business and that R&D on film camera development would be a waste. Just keep making what you have while you're still making some sort of profit, and cut away at the models which are making least or losing money. Keep a few around just for kicks and to support the few pros still shooting 35mm film.

[jeff_plomley1]

I love my pair of 1v's. Over the four years that I have owned them, having switched from

shooting Nikon for over 10 years, they are an extension of my vision. I understand every

nuance of these bodies, and the strengths and weaknesses of every Canon optic I own. I

like not seeing the images during my shoot. That would distract me. After a long day of

shooting I want to collapse into bed, not process images and back-up data ad infinitum. I

want to imagine how the images I shot will look; imagination is a sweet thing. I don't want

to have to worry about dust on my sensors, travelling with a laptop, card readers, and

back-up hard drives. I like seeing the final chromes on my light table, the process of

sorting, and final projection on my Leica Pradovit RT-m. I have yet to see any digital

projector match this 35mm slide projector when matched with the Leica 90mm SuperColor

Plan Pro lens. Then, if i feel the image will make a suitable print, I will either scan it on my

Nikon 5000 scanner or for really large prints i will outsource to a local lab that can scan

8,000 ppi on an Imacon 848. Then I will tweak the image in PS-CS, and output it on my

Epson 7800. Fine Art images usually end up on Hahnemuhle PhotoRag 308 or IntelliCoat

100% cotton Canvas (for stretching), while wildlife images I usually print on Epson

Premium Lustre. This workflow really does the trick for me. I always have a hard copy, I

can project better than any digital projector, and I can make outstanding prints using the

right tools and plug-ins for PS. There is no downside to this workflow, until you throw

digital capture into the equation, and then I have a lot more computer processing to do

which is just something I would not enjoy. My two cents worth....

[jeff_plomley1]

Oh, I forgot to add the cost of a 1-series digital body, which is all I would be satisfied with

after using 1v's. And of course i would need two of these; a 1DsM2 and 1DM2. This is just

not economical at this point in time. Also, I would be hesitant to take these puppies into

some of the environments i have taken my 1v's.

[jeff_plomley1]

Damn, just thought of another consideration. My Canon wide angle zooms would just fall

apart on the 1-series digital bodies. That would mean having to stick Leica or Zeiss optics

on them, another expense of $4K for the 19mm Elmarit and $3K for the 21-35 Elmarit. No

thanks..

[digitmstr]

>>After a long day of shooting I want to collapse into bed, not process images and back-up data ad infinitum.<<

 

Let us know what film you are using which magically processes itself while you sleep. I'd like to invest in that company...

[evanzamir]

This is not just the end of the film business. It also signifies the end of 35 mm format. Will there be any incentive for these companies to produce 35 mm CCD's? Now that there will be no competition even from film cameras, I say the answer is no. We are stuck with this APS-sized digital format, which makes my 24 and 105 lenses crap. Well, maybe you guys are stuck with it. I'm not switching to digital until they pry my F4 from my cold dead fingers! Long live film. Long live 35 mm!

[andrew robertson]

"That leaves the Nikon F6 as the most technologically up to date film SLR. No successor to

the EOS-1V to be expected. Nikon F6 is truly an amazing camera!"

 

Come on now. The 1V still has the fastest AF around, and is better sealed than the Nikon

especially because Canon also produces sealed lenses.

 

Sure, the Nikon F6 is a nice camera, but it really doesn't have much on the 1V or even the

1n. I can't think of a single compelling feature that makes me wish I had one, nor would I

consider switching. I think that Canon's engineers and other customers probably came to

the same conclusion as well.

[robert lee]

"Will there be any incentive for these companies to produce 35 mm CCD's?"

 

Of course. These two things are totally unrelated.

 

Digital cameras with full frame sensors will always be in demand from market high end. The traditional semiconductor cost reduction curve, increasing density by shrinking device geometry, doesn't apply completely to imagers for two reasons. First, noise increases as photosites shrink. Second, the lenses won't be able to supply the required resolution, specifically when stopped down due to diffraction.

 

It's likely the 35mm format itself will be around a long time; it just won't be film.

[andrew robertson]

"This is not just the end of the film business. It also signifies the end of 35 mm format.

Will there be any incentive for these companies to produce 35 mm CCD's? Now that there

will be no competition even from film cameras, I say the answer is no. We are stuck with

this APS-sized digital format, which makes my 24 and 105 lenses crap. Well, maybe you

guys are stuck with it. I'm not switching to digital until they pry my F4 from my cold dead

fingers! Long live film. Long live 35 mm!"

 

You are aware that Canon sells two full frame DSLRs, aren't you? And that they are still

selling film cameras as well, and plan to continue doing so for some time?

[mark u]

I've seen suggestions that Canon has ceased production of the 1Ds Mk II, and I wouldn't mind betting that production of the 350D may cease before long. Of course, neither is headline news...

[ky2]

<i>"Sure, the Nikon F6 is a nice camera, but it really doesn't have much on the 1V or even the 1n."</i>... Ummmmmmmm... NO.

[andrew robertson]

Please, tell me what compelling features the F6 has that would make me choose it over the

1n.

[keith_lubow]

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I think that $1,700 for the Eos-1v is quite a deal. I'm monsidering purchasing one to match whatever EOS digital I decide on. Nice being able to swap lenses between film and digital. My 35 is an FT-b! It does everything perfectly (only three things to worry about: aperture, shutter speed, and focus), but I would still love a brand new state-of-the art 35mm film camera.

 

The F6 is great too, but I like the overall Canon system better.

 

Mark: Not sure if Canon halted production of Mark IIs, but they've definitely got a new flagship coming out. I hear from friends at Getty that Canon is hinting that it'll be 45 megapixel with built-in wireless (but will still crop the viewfinder image...IDIOTS!). In fact, wireless was not originally intended to be released until the sucessor to the Mark II, but Canon got so much flak from the wire services that they released the accessory wireless unit to hold them over.

 

Keith

[keith_lubow]

BTW, I don't mean that it won't be full frame. What I'm talking about is that even the full frame models show slightly more in the viewfinder than what you capture. You lose a tiny bit of the edges, even on the "full-frame" models. (I love my FTb because it actually captures slightly MORE than what the viewfinder shows you.) Now how hard would it be to design a viewfinder that shows you EXACTLY what will be in the picture? That seems to be THE FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT THING an SLR camera should do! I hate to crop after the fact. Cropping should be done in camera as much as possible. It leads to compositionally stronger images. Composing a shot knowing I am going to crop it feels weird to me. I shouldn't have to force myself to shoot wide because I know the camera won't capture what I see. It totally changes the way you view and compose things....

 

grr...

 

Keith

[ky2]

Andrew, I don't want to start a Canon vs. Nikon flame war. But honestly, if you've handled both (and I have), you would find out that:

 

1) Well the F6 is smaller. Lighter.

 

2) It's metering system is more sophisticated, and is generally better than any other camera out there (it sees in color, where as any Canon right now sees in B&W only). It's also rated for a larger EV range (see both specs).

 

3) Although Canon praises its 45 matrix of AF sensors, not many of these are of the higher-end, more sensitive cross types. The MultiCAM 2000 is ahead of anything Canon has to offer.

 

4) Its viewfinder (just as the F5's btw) is still better than any EOS camera to date.

 

This still proves nothing of course. I still prefer my Fm3a :).

[arnabdas]

This still proves nothing of course. I still prefer my Fm3a :)

 

My feelings exactly. The F6 is great to read about, look at and hold in your hands. The FM3A is great to shoot and make photographs with.

 

On the original topic -- I cannot see how film cameras can be improved any further without making them overly complicated. The only improvement necessary is a reduction in size and weight without sacrificing build quality (which isn't gonna happen either).

[jeff_plomley1]

Well here are a few improvements I would like to see in the next generation 1v:

 

1. AF similar to that in the 1DM2 where AF and metering use separate processors thereby

improving AF speed.

 

2. A MLU mechanism that does not expire after the mirror has been locked for 30 sec.

This is an annoyance. It should stay locked up until the user trips the shutter! Simple as

that.

 

3. MLU as a switch on the body instead of CF-12; in winter it is a pain in the ass to

activate.

 

4. The ability to bracket ambient exposure when using fill flash. Not being able to do this

was a major oversight by Canon engineers afaik.

 

5. A molded motor drive; get rid of the PB-E2 attachment. It is an entry point for salt/

moisture/grit etc .It is the weakest component when shooting in harsh environments.

 

6. A more rubbery grip; helps when your hands are soaked.

 

7. A numbered dioptre correction dial.

 

8. ETTL-II

 

9. Faster film rewind. Compared to my F5, the 1v-HS is slow.

 

10. Ability to see the shooting mode in the viewfinder. I hate having to look at the top

LCD panel to see what mode I am in.

 

O.K. That's all. So it looks to me like their is room for improvement.

[shawn mielke]

The F6 is my current camera and my camera of choice, but it won't take the EF 35mm 1.4L

or the EF 24mm 1.4L, and Nikon doesn't seem particularly interested in designing and

manufacturing comparable prime lenses.

Therefore, the 1V is my next, other camera of choice.

And then I will live in peace and harmony, shooting both systems, shooting film.

[christopher_engeler]

Shawn: I believe Nikon owns the 28mm category with the 28mm f1.4. I don't have that lens for my F6 so have no first-hand knowlege about it. Furthermore, Zeiss is starting a line of Nikon-mount manual focus primes (50mm and 85mm f1.4 lenses so far). I am hoping for some of their superb wide-angles to join the lineup later this year. For the record, I am into both systems and started with Canon back in 1974 with an EF which is still one of the best-handling cameras ever (check out the current thread in the Canon FD forum.

[ky2]

<i>"Shawn: I believe Nikon owns the 28mm category with the 28mm f1.4"</i> -- May be so, but Shawn is right. Nikon is pulling back on their primes, and their remarkable 28/1.4 has been discontinued.

[christopher_engeler]

Yaron: The 28mm f/1.4D AF Nikkor is an autofocus lens, it was never made in AI-S. But has it been discontinued? I thought Nikon was only getting out of most of the manual focus lenses.

[ky2]

That's correct on both (AIS/discontinued). 28/1.4D copies are being sold on the bay right now for close to $2k...

[andrew robertson]

I have never understood how a color meter will help me. In fact, I think it is a confusing and

pointless feature.

 

As far as the other features, you are correct for the size of the unit. I don't really find

Nikon's VF better - I like the Canon VF layout better. The Canon still spanks it for AF speed,

drive speed, weatherproofing, etc. I guess it depends on which features you want in a

camera.

[ky2]

I agree to that, Andrew. I don't care much about gizmos either. Between my Leica M3 (meterless) and my Fm3a, I'm very happy.