D2X Or D2Hs For 24x36 Output @ ISO 1600

[lukas_jenkins]

Here is the situation... I shoot HS sports, all sports. Football, soccer, lacrosse, baseball, softball, indoor

volleyball, indoor basketball, field hockey, ice hockey. Football, soccer, lacrosse, volleyball, basketball, and

ice hockey are shot outdoors at night or indoors with limited lighting (certainly not lit for TV). Flash could

be used for some of the indoor events but I will not have access to any kind of ceiling mounted strobe

lighting. So for a majority of the stuff I shoot I'm at ISO 1600. I need to be able to print 24x36 posters

from ISO 1600 files. Not exactly a bread and butter job but hey welcome to HS sports photography. So I

have a choice D2Hs or D2X. I already have a D200 but I am looking for Cam 2000 and 8fps, which are

what the D200 lacks. For some sports I would use the D2X in it's native 12MP mode but many 8fps HSC

mode @6.8MP (football for example). I am aware of the following comparisons:

http://www.naturfotograf.com/D2X/D2H_vs_D2X_brickwall.jpg

http://www.pbase.com/stevehuff/d2hs_vs_d200

 

My three concerns:

1. D2X will be pretty noisy, worse than the D200.

2. D2X HSC mode might be problematic with chopping off limbs in frames. (not as big of a deal as 1. and

3.)

3. D2Hs 4.1MP won't be enough for 24x36 prints at ISO 1600.

 

I truly thank you for your help. Please be sure to state, which camera(s) you have, have shot, or have seen

large prints from.

 

Lukas

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Hi Lucas,

 

Your asking a fair bit here 2x3foot prints from a d2hs is going to be a struggle especially at 1600 iso I can only get results up to 8x12 with mine at 800 let alone 1600 which we need for hockey aswell. The D2x isn't that much better except the extra res helps when not shooting in HSC, I'd preffer to shoot the d2h over the d2x in HSC to avoid cutting of limbs etc as you said so really when shooting the x i don't use HSC.

 

You will also need to get profficient with neat image or noise ninga to get anywhere near the size your talking about.

 

I have both and just got a d200 yesterday but my initial thoughts of the d200 is it will be used soley for team shots not action, after reading all the great reviews on the d200 I bought one but now really felt I should have coughed up for another d2x I was hoping the focus would be better than it is but I bought it mainly for the team shots so no big deal here IMHO it's far from a pro camera but will go ok for the studio for a while, no idea what its like at high iso yet but still after testing it out yesterday I think I'll stick with the d2's for sports.

 

Regards

Mark

[ShunCheung]

I would say neither one of those two is suitable for 24x36" prints at ISO 1600. I would have no problem printing that big from the D2X at ISO 100.

[armando_roldan]

I shot HS sports too and you have to remember that even tho you want the best image possible in the worst light, it still HS sports and you are not shooting for the cover of SPORTS ILLUSTRATED.

 

Very few 35mm type cameras will give you great results even in daytime at 24x36. I suggest using the D2H for sports and try for the best action shot possible and perhaps dwell on quality of the enlargement later. I also have shot motocross and my fastest selling photos were of a certain action images rather the really the best overall perfect exposure.

 

I shoot the D2h, D70s and F100.I never made an enlargement bigger than 12x18 and it was at 200asa. For sports, I rather have 2 gigs of 900 large-fine JPGS at 8 fps then 170 RAW files from a D2X...

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Totally agree Armando.

[david_h._hartman]

Lukas,<br>

<br>

If its between those two cameras then Id go for the D2Hs.

Regarding the 24x36 inch prints, youll simply have to

accept the penalties for shooting at ISO 1600. You cant

expect the quality of a D2X at ISO 100 from either the D2Hs or

the D2X at ISO 1600.<br>

<br>

Here is a shot on T-Max P3200 rated at EI 1600. Its getting

late in the afternoon and the water is choppy so most of the

light is bouncing off the water rather than getting under the

surface. My choice was P3200 or dont shoot.<br>

<br>

<img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2827066-lg.jpg"

width="511" height="352"><br>

<br>

I like the photograph. Its not a technical marvel. Even as

a small image on a computer monitor you can tell its grainy

as all hell. <br>

<br>

Today I could do better if I owned an U/W housing for my D2H. The

date of the photos is about 1994 I guess. Another decade and Im

sure the state of the art will be much higher.<br>

<br>

I agree with Armando, get the image and worry about quality of

your enlargements later.<br>

<br>

Best,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[andy a.]

I think a serious option would be to consider a 1d2 N. If you need 8 fps AND iso 1600 AND big enlargements that is. I guess you'd have to decide if it's worth dumping the glass, but the Canon option allows you to make no compromises.

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Lukas,

 

I have a D2X and have shot college hockey in HSC mode, ISO 800 with good results, but have not enlarged to the size you're planning. Personally, I think 5fps with the full image should be plenty fast enough for you and with 12MP the enlargement is going to look better from the D2X. As far as noise, I've tried out most of the plugins available and I think Noiseware is by far the best and easiest. It essentially has removed noise from my thinking.

 

Paul

[lukas_jenkins]

Thanks for all your opinions. I know myself that 24x36 @ ISO 1600 is a stretch and a half

but if it is what the parents want then my company must honor their request. Sometimes

we do recommend smaller sizes but if possible we like to just fulfill the requests. I use

Noise Ninja, which has done a good job with D200 files so far. The largest print I have

made above ISO 200 has been 16x20 at ISO 800 and that was with the D200. Next years

football team wants to make posters, they play at night, and last year before I was

shooting for the HS they ordered 20x30's for every senior. So I would imagine I would

either have to shoot with flash, which I am reluctant to do or shoot at ISO 1600 at f/2.8.

My college has the Mark II N but I really do not want to dump my 300mm f/2.8,

70-200mm f/2.8, 12-24mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8, and 60mm f/2.8. I do not like the feel of

the Canon cameras anyway. I think I am going to get a D2X because there is one at a good

price on the market now and the D2Hs I was looking at sold (it was a demo from Adorama

for $2,549). I will continue to save and purchase a D2Hs off the used market in time. I

know this is not possible but it would be nice if the CCD and CMOS sensors were

swappable so I could purchase like a $700 8MP sensor for a D2Hs or something like that,

it would be nice. Well I just bought a used but in 97-99% new condition D2X from B&H for

$3,399. I won one on eBay for a lot less than this but the person stopped responding,

never took my money, and thus I never got the D2X.

 

Lukas

[mark newcombe www.mcnphoto]

Report it to ebay Lucas. Enjoy the D2X it's a really good camera. Get a shutter count using Opanda.

 

Regards

Mark

[lukas_jenkins]

Ok so I got my "used" D2X from B&H today. I paid $3,426.10 (including shipping) for a LN-

rating D2X. LN- stands for Like New and 97-99% original condition. So I get it and all the

accessories are in their bags never opened. I pull out the D2X and I have not found the

missing 3%. Initial shutter count was 24 before I took any images. So I guess the 24 images

taken make up the 3% and resulted in me acquiring it for about $400 less than the current

price after the rebate ($3,800). In the end I am happy. I will look into getting a D2Hs in time.

 

Lukas