jeff_genung Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 ok...this is the question revoling around my household. I have a C220 with a 180mm that I love, but if I am going to buy another lens or two for it, I feel that I am moving outside the realm of "photographer" and into the realm of "collector". I have had the seals all replaced on it, and it is --well awesome for head and shoulders portrait work, but I really thing I want to get a RB67, and the wife is threatening to bean me with a holga if I choose both, so it's one or the other. I would like to hear from the crowd --pick one: Mamiya TLR and go with the upward direction of the price of decent lenses--or go to RB67 and wade through all the "might be ok" stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Jeff, Just recently I saw a C220 F in a dealer's cabinet and, well, I just couldn't resist it. I then found a set of 135mm lenses and bought them. I have an RB which has been my MF mainstay for 15 years but the C220 has its attractions and I feel it has a lot to recommend it - lightness, simplicity, robustness and reliability. Since there is no distaff side in this particular household there is no threat of grievous bodily harm inflicted by a Holga - which is why I have fifteen cameras, two enlargers etc. etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trex1 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 It's wierd the way equipment just multiplies. I think I have become a collector instead of a photographer as well. A friend told me of some lines from Jack Nicholson, where he said sometimes you have to kill your little darlings. I think it may have been in reference to acting lines, but it applies with gear as well. Anyway, the way I see it, and I am trying to be helpful here, is that you struck the nail on the head. How can one be happy with what he has? And don't get me wrong, I have drawers full of gear at home, and actually, reading your post has convinced me to try and do something about it. If you get the RB, you have a great camera, rotating backs, sharp lense, and great close focusing ability, but it weighs a ton. You will then decide you want a lighter camera and go for a hasselblad, and your wife will be even more pissed. Think carefully about what you need and get that. If weight is no issue, sell the TLR and get the Mamiya. If you like TLR and you want lightweight, get an old Yashica 124. If you like SLR and light, get a Hassy or a Bronica. Perhaps the best compromise would be a Bronica EC, have you thought of that? Or a Pentax 67? That's what I shoot. Good luck and let us know what you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skygzr Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Aside from the obvious differences in size and weight, there are some differences in the lenses. The RB lenses are better about flare under extreme conditions (ie light sources in night photography). You'll see more ghosts in the TLR pics. I know this because I've shot both in very similar circumstances. Having said that, the TLR lenses are really very good. Don't let that be the deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug_harhai Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Jeff, I am at a similar crossroads right now--I have a Rolleiflex T which I love and recently had rebuilt. It is my only MF. The ONLY problem with it (in my eyes) is the fixed lens. There are times when I want (and actually need) a tele lens. I love the tlr system. The problem that I have is to decide whether I want to also buy the c220 or c330 with the 135 or 180 super, in which case I would have to take 2 bodies out to shoot; buy an SLR like Bronica or Mamiya; or simply just keep the rollei ( I also have 35mm and LF gear, so I guess that I have become a bit of a collector, although there is nothing wrong with that in my eyes, I could be spending $300 per week on golf greens fees with nothing to show for it except bad scores). My advice, based on my recent thoughts, is that the *logical* decision is that you should keep the TLR and buy the lenses for it. You will save yourself the agonizing decisions about which body you should take out to shoot; which lenses and focal lengths you should buy for which; which ones you should buy filters for; which ones you should get CLA'd; etc. If I had purchased the Mamiya TLR system in the first place, I would not be looking to add lenses or other bodies right now, I would just build the heck out of the system. Unfortunately, that Rolleiflex was just too tempting. I don't regret buying the Rolleiflex for a second, but the fact that that I didn't buy into a system with interchangeable lenses has caused me to consider different supplementary systems which have them. Look at the prices of the RB, and the various backs, finders, etc., and you start getting into some serious cash, even at the rock bottom prices where they are right now. That said, if you really 'need' the RB, then my *illogical* ;-) advice is to go for it--you certainly won't get anything but support from me and you will have great collectibles to pass to your kids one day. I have been in your shoes, I am there right now, and I will certainly be there in the future (Hassy, leica, Mamiya, oh so many cameras, so little time and money...) Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_scott_steube Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Jeff, Jeff� Jeff Didn�t anyone tell you that 98.5% of all active camera �collectors� do so before (or between) marriages.?! Anyways, if you already feel satisfied with the C220 shooting style/rhythm, and that temptation vs marital bliss is a primary point; then by all mean stick with the C system and over time acquire a collection of C lenses. I own a C330, plus 55mm, 65mm, 80mm, 135mm lenses, and for all this I have spent less than $1,000 over 2-3 years. I�m very happy with this setup� However, I also shoot with Mamiya�s RZ system (generation after RB), and truth be told, I shoot 20-30 rolls of film in a RZ for every 1 roll in my C330..! My RZ is almost always atop a tripod; it can be handheld OK with say a 110mm lens or shorter, but handheld is the exception, tripod is the rule. So with longer RZ (RB) lenses, say a 500mm APO; well just the tripod/gimbel-head/arca-clamp rig needed to support that camera/lens behemoth costs more than my entire C330 �collection�� So while the RB gear may be had for just pennies on the dollar, a �collection� will still run you $5,000 to $25,000; no joke� If you are a Pro-Photographer the RB system is the steal of the 21st century, but if you a married non-Pro "collector", proceed at your own peril..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavelp Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 <i>ok...this is the question revoling around my household. I have a C220 with a 180mm that I love, but if I am going to buy another lens or two for it, I feel that I am moving outside the realm of "photographer" and into the realm of "collector".</i><br /><br /> If you do not use the lenses, then yes. However, if you have a use for additional lenses, then there's nothing "collectorish" about buying them. I have some lenses that are used a lot and some that are used occasionally, but both kinds have a place in my bag.<br /><br /> <i> I have had the seals all replaced on it, and it is --well awesome for head and shoulders portrait work, but I really thing I want to get a RB67, and the wife is threatening to bean me with a holga if I choose both, so it's one or the other.</i><br /><br /> You have to make this decision yourself. The RB is very versatile, it's macro capability is real (no parallax problems) and the C-lenses (and K/L of course) are better performers than the TLR lenses (this might be probably attributred to multicoating and recessed front elements). However, the TLR lenses quite good too. On the other hand, the RB is quite heavy and not as handy as TLRs (and each lens is pretty much of size of a TLR body). I have both and I use the TLR when I travel or just want to shoot some candids. The RB is for more serious stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_ullsmith1 Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 Jeff, it's not pathological until you're walking up the drive to the estate sale, quietly praying, "please, lord, let this guy have been a camera nut." Then there is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalahorse Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 I have both the RB67 and C330S. Here's my take... Lenses: The older "chrome" (look at the shutter speed dial) TLR lenses have single coatings similar to the original RB67 lenses (aka, "non-C"). The later "black" TLR lenses have multi coatings similar to the "C" series RB67 lenses. Better coatings provide slightly better contrast, flare resistance, and color saturation. I haven't used the latest (expensive) K/L lenses for RB67, but I understand they're really nice. In my mind, intended usage is a big factor. I think TLRs are awsome portrait cameras! There's no blackout or shake during the exposure. Parallax compensation is easy to get used to. The RB67 has a bigger frame size and DOF preview - two things that I find important for landscape and macro work. Mirror shake can be a problem, but there is a mirror pre-fire feature. The blackout, in my mind, makes the RB67 less appropriate for portrait work. Good luck with your decision! If you decide on an RB67, pay the extra few dollars for "C" lenses! If you stay with the C220, pay the extra fer dollars for the "black" lenses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_genung Posted June 23, 2006 Author Share Posted June 23, 2006 Some great ideas here. ---the wife and I both work in one of the premier camera stores in the country, yet neither of us is in the hardware part of the store. So I have the ability to at least physically see a lot of stuff on a moments notice so I at least don't have to guess what something looks like or how big it is before I buy it (I do however buy mainly on-line). Yesterday I pointed out to one of the salesmen that if some camera company made a camera out of lead, I would be first in line, so weight other than "it's not heavy enough" is sort of a reverse problem for me. I think I may just sneak a way to buy an RB and keep the C220 also, I just love the thing and have yet to get a bad shot that wasn't my fault out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavelp Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 <i>I think I may just sneak a way to buy an RB and keep the C220 also, I just love the thing and have yet to get a bad shot that wasn't my fault out of it. </i><br /><br > Predictable outcome :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug_harhai Posted June 23, 2006 Share Posted June 23, 2006 "I think I may just sneak a way to buy an RB and keep the C220 also"... That is what I really wanted to recommend, but my wife was watching me type my response. Actually, I think that I am going to join you by buying the C330 or the RB, too. If you can't beat em, join em, as they say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulh Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 Perhaps you need to consider how much the beaning with a Holga will hurt. It is only plastic after all :-) Now, if she threatens to bean you with the RB..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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