andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Apart from full frame and an extra 8 megapixels ? Is it worth it? p.s im quitting my normal job in a years time and doing photgraphy as a job. I will be paying them off + accessories and L glass over a 2 year period. 1d mk2 is more affordable, but the quality of the 1Ds is something i very much desire, my work will consist of photojournalism, portrait and landscape, printing A4 to A3 on a canon i9950. Thanks. have fun :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 oh, i forgot to put, thats for a 1D "mark 2" and a 1Ds "mark 2" :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squareframe Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Andrew, respectfully .. by asking a question such as you have, you might want to reconsider quitting your day-job. to take on self-employment requires a good-measure of self-discovery and self-direction. asking a question, so fundamental and with well-documented answers, leads me to believe you should consider your career-change carefully, and work on honing your problem-solving and data-collection skills. all the best ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_dunn2 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 <p>Twice as many pixels is the primary raison d'être of the 1Ds II vs. the 1D II. The full frame sensor is probably #2 on the list. If those aren't sufficient to justify the extra money, I suspect you won't find any other reasons to get the 1Ds. The 1Ds also has a downside; all those extra pixels slow it down, so if your PJ work might require high frame rates, the 1D could be more appropriate (though, at 4 fps, the 1Ds isn't exactly a snail).</p> <p>Either one has more than enough resolution for stunning A4 prints. I'm just guessing as to whether you'd see any difference at A3; my suspicion is that you'd probably have to bring your eyes as close to the print as you can focus in order to see any difference.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edward_h Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I agree with Daniel. Two seconds worth of googling would have answered that question. *sigh* Why is it people with more money than sense always want everything served to them on a platter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boris_ochan Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 "Apart from full frame and an extra 8 megapixels ? Is it worth it?" Probably not. It's worth bearing in mind that there are credible/successful photographers working at a high level with cameras no more exotic than Canon 20Ds and Olypus E1s. Daniel makes a fair point regarding the seeming naivety of your question, but there are plenty of photographers who began with nothing more substantial than a naive whim. You might want to consider changing your name though, I can think of at least two photographers who share your name...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boris_ochan Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 "I can think of at least two photographers who share your name......" 30 seconds of googling delivered: http://www.artnet.com/artist/12021/Andrew_Moore.html http://www.time.com/time/europe/photoessays/nireland/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_phan Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 <i>Apart from full frame and an extra 8 megapixels ? Is it worth it?</i> <p> That's enough for some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 >>photojournalism,portrait and landscape, printing A4 to A3 on a canon i9950.<< Magazines and publications want files NOT prints so, the bit about printing on a Canon i9950 is irrelevant. Also, the best photographers (translation: those who work the most and get the best gigs) *specialize* in something. They don't do everything. But, I agree with some of the posters that if you have to ask you are not ready for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_england Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Andrew, I use a 1dmk2, and have printed images (RAW) up to 40x60 at a photolab using a Durst machine with very nice results. If you're going to follow the path you're thinking of, I recommend it thoroughly. as I quit my job to go freelance 4 years ago, and I've never looked back. Best thing I ever did job wise. The mk2 is a fantastic camera for photojournalism, pr, magazine work, portraits, studio, fashion etc etc, and I would suggest at this stage in your career, you wouldn't really need the 1ds mk2. I still can't justify that price tag yet, and for any jobs that I really need a huge resolution image for, I use my Mamiya RB67 and have the images scanned. A medium format camera could be an option to look into for you as well as a mk2. You can certainly pick them up cheap enough these days. Anyway, I digress. Basically, the 1dmk2 is an extremely capable camera, and coupled with the right lenses will give you some amazing results. Buy the best you can reasonably afford for now, and see where it takes you. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick_england Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Andrew, I use a 1dmk2, and have printed images (RAW) up to 40x60 at a photolab using a Durst machine with very nice results. If you're going to follow the path you're thinking of, I recommend it thoroughly. I quit my job to go freelance 4 years ago, and I've never looked back. Best thing I ever did job wise. The mk2 is a fantastic camera for photojournalism, pr, magazine work, portraits, studio, fashion etc etc, and I would suggest at this stage in your career, you wouldn't really need the 1ds mk2. I still can't justify that price tag yet, and for any jobs that I really need a huge resolution image for, I use my Mamiya RB67 and have the images scanned. A medium format camera could be an option to look into for you as well as a mk2. You can certainly pick them up cheap enough these days. Anyway, I digress. Basically, the 1dmk2 is an extremely capable camera, and coupled with the right lenses will give you some amazing results. Buy the best you can reasonably afford for now, and see where it takes you. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick_helmke Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Andrew give the idea of self-employment a lot of thought and research. Having said that I wish I'd done it years ago. Based on the type of work you are planning I think you would be better off with a 20D and spend the difference on the best glass you can afford. Nick mentioned an RB-67 or other medium format and that suggestion has merit. I've found that digital has replaced film in many applications for me but but I still need a film capability to do some things the way I feel they should be done. Rick H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkie Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 nick, i assume thats 40 x 60 "inches". did you need to upscale the images, if so, what software did you use. i assume they were spat out at 300dpi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Thankyou for all your answers they have helped me greatly, here is some of my replies to you, I have been doing photgraphy amateur for three years now, and i want to make it a career, i believe i have a good eye, good technique and imagination,i have improved a lot since i started taking this more seriously and believe i have what it takes to be a succesful photgrapher. Daniel Taylor, Thankyou for your concern and your advice. i should have stated, i am hoping to "give up doing normal dayjobs full time in a years time or so" .My last day job was in a bar ( i am currently on holiday in buenos aires - argentina ), last one before that was in an internet cafe, my next job will probably be in a supermarket ( they pay 7 pound an hour tho, not bad. ) , i dont want to be doing those jobs for all my life! Im not very academic ( mostly grade C in standard grade and a higher A in music ) i am artistic ( in a rock band performing/writing also ) un fortunatly were not close to being famous yet, so im going to take up photgraphy as my working career of choice and keep doing the music in my spare time, yes i have a lot of research to do regarding self employment. I take heed of your words, However this post is to find out what professionals thought of the price difference solely on these 2 cameras. Not my ability as a self employed photographer. But thankyou ! It is nice to see some caring ! I know if i require information on self employment i know i can count on you, can i? Learn to walk first, one step at a time you are correct, this is what i am doing, learning from you and taking baby steps to get to hopefully where you are now, By asking questions and peoples opinions who know a hell of a lot more than me about this subject. And i don?t yet have a specialist niche. I am hoping to sell prints of landscape of Edinburgh and surrounding countryside to tourists at the Edinburgh International Festival, Portraits because i am interested in being a fashion photographer and photojournalism because i am interested in working for a newspaper and or a magazine/s. I hope out of all the expierences i can see where i will be best and follow that road. I am well aware of the statistics of both cameras, i was seeking views from professionals who are already working in the field with these tools of their trade. wondering if i needed to fork out the extra squid on a 1ds. Thanks for your input. Edward. H I wish i had more money than sense ! i dont. I have nearly nothing after this holiday, and i can only get work as a barmam or something like that. I have to pay off what i can with money i get from photography jobs and my normal job in the next year or two ( got a job photographing this years T in the park music festival in scotland - access all areas, expenses paid etc.) . I might have to sell my best fender telecaster deluxe and maybe my very nice separates music system in order to get my pro camera gear and to finally have a decent income/ enjoyable job as a photgrapher ( like all you guys ) I am prepared to make an investment into my tools which will gaurentee me satisfactory results for me and my customers. Boris o?chan You think people are going to mix me up with those other photgraphers ? Im sure there must be a lot of photgraphers with the same name. Anyhow, i can use Andrew Robert Moore. or Andrew. R. Moore Giampiero Scuderi, Yes I am asking because i am not ready for the job. Thats right. Hence seeking information from professionals to get ready,information to become a professional. However your information is intuitive to me. mags and papers want files not prints, and the photographers who specialize get the best work. Thankyou for your input. Nick England, Thankyou for your positive and informative response it is completely relevant to my question + supplying addictional information on the mamiya has given me great insight to what i require. Yes i do feel the price tag is a lot on the 1Ds hence my question to see what pros thought, and used. You have helped me so much. Your positive words about starting a career in photography has given me some small joy + much inspiration plus bringing back a little renovation in the people who share our interest on this forum, ( to see positivity to newcomers is a blessing ) Best of luck to you to ! Rick H, Thankyou for your input, i feel a 20D would not be sufficient in performance in many key areas i require my camera to perform for my work, i am investing in quality L glass lenses to receive excellent visual quality images/prints for my customers satisfaction. + the fact once paid for i have them for life and no upgrading required. Thankyou all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Steve Dunn, thanks ! thats great information on the prints ! thats the kind of things i need to hear as ill be selling my prints. Any more info like this is greatly recieved. Does anyone think the 1Ds is that superior in quality for A3 prints to justify its price tag, or really is it so small a scale to not notice that i should just go for a 1Dmk2 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squareframe Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Andrew, I do, indeed, wish you the best of luck. my comments were simply borne from the recognition that becoming a successful photographer comes from so much more than buying the correct tools. you are going to have to 'out-think' and 'out-photograph' your way above the crowd. my comments are merely to help you see that ... anyone can buy a camera. not everyone, can discover the unique and enchanting world behind their retinas, and capture it with a camera. I have this feeling ... you will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Very much appreciated kind words Daniel, Thankyou! I look to you ( A pillar of the photographc world ) with great respect. Since we are on the topic of working on 1. honing problem solving skills 2.data-collection skills aswell as 3.out-thinking and 4. out-photographing the crowd, i was wondering if you could explain/expand exactly what is involved in each of these 4 factors you have mentioned above. Any Advice you can give to me ( and perhaps other novices looking into a career in this profession reading this post ) is very *very* much appreciated. Thankyou ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Without giving away too much of course. You were begginning once, i wonder what tips you can give.I hope you dont mind sharing your wealth(y) of information. Thanks once more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squareframe Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 I am a dolt ... go make pictures from the heart. you will feel your photography has caught a glimpse of your world, while others will dismiss your efforts as frivolous adjuncts to more important tasks at hand. in the end ... you'll discover their worth is more than you had ever originally imagined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 well, here's another "intuitive" bit: if you plan to make a living mostly (like 80%) from doing large mag. spreads, commercial photography and such the 1Ds MKII would be better. Otherwise, the 1D MKII is the camera for you and will save you a fair amount of cash. You can always rent or borrow a different camera for the occasional job that requires it. In other words, put the cash in the tools that will produce the vast mjority of your income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tri_tran3 Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 It is easy to say you want to be a photographer. I would take a few business classes and management. I would imagine taking pictures is the easy part. The hard part is to figure out how you will get pay with your pictures. Good luck Tri Back to the original question. I would think the 1D MrkII would be better for you. Higher frame rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Seems like the 1dmk2 is sufficent for my needs *at this time* taking printing issues into consideration and it is better for my budget although i am prepared to invest more into the 1DSmk2 if it is so required for my profession. Perhaps at a later date when *i hope possibly* i will be doing large magazine spreads, and i will be earning enough to afford such a camera ( by that time it?s successor , albeit in 2 years time it would be expected to see the 1DSmk2 to be a little but more affordable ). I was wondering, is there anybody in this forum who is shooting catalogues such as kays or for high street brand shops, and what is your gear of choice for these pictures. Many thanks to all.. Your all so helpful ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 >>i will be earning enough to afford such a camera<< Right. In addition, between now and then there will be a new model and it will better (maybe even cheaper) etc... In the mean time, having gained a few years experience in the field (whichever type of photography you'll end up doing) you'll know more precisely what the shortcomings (for lack of a better word) of your current gear are and what you really, really *need* from your next purchase. Catalog and brochure work is printed fairly small and even expensive auction houses' printing needs would be served by the 1DMK II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewmoore Posted May 5, 2005 Author Share Posted May 5, 2005 Thanks Giampiero, i regard your knowledge with much admiration and respect. Thankyou so much for sharing with me :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boris_ochan Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 "You think people are going to mix me up with those other photgraphers" No, it was more a reference to how many photographers there are out there. "i feel a 20D would not be sufficient in performance in many key areas" Unless you want to cover sport there's no reason why it shouldn't be sufficient. There are photographers regularly making covers and double-page spreads in magazines like Time and Newsweek with this camera; a number of Newsweek photographers are working with Olympus E1s. Many photographers working at a very high level (and for who price just isn't an issue) favor so-called amateur cameras over the 1D/1Ds because they are so much more manageable in terms of size and weight. It's true that most press photographers use variations on the 1D, but at the top of the reportage market (Magnum, Time, Newsweek.....) you'll find a lot of people using cameras like the 20D. Another benefit for you (as your funds are limited) is that you can buy two or three bodies for the price of one 1 series body; it isn't realistic to expect to rely on a single body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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