skeeter Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Mark Wahlster , jun 04, 2006; 10:37 p.m. george b wrote: "Although his photos served military and historical purposes, I didn't see any in the book that would elicit a "Wow" on this (or any other) forum. " There are photo's here that DO? you should check out peter a's submission in the thread above called "forbidden landscapes"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmdelux Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 The truth is that multiple millions of innocents were killed by the Nazi regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot_rosen1 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Today (June 5) is the 62nd Anniversary of D-Day. Ten thousand allied troops died, but it was the beginning of the end of the war in Europe. Despite the large number of Allied deaths, it could have been worse. The Germans weren't as prepared for the invasion at Normandy as they could have been (inwhich case casualties would have been higher) because they [not illogically] thought that the invasion of Europe would be led by General Patton (who they regarded as America's greatest general). They were caught by surprise. Patton was not given the task of leading the invasion (? because he wasn't a politically correct figure and had various "pecadillos"). At least that's the way it was portrayed in the movie "Patton", starring George C. Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot_rosen1 Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Sorry, it should have read "June 6", not "June 5". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesrani Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Paul, that is simply the outline of the truth. Millions of civilians were probably killed by Allied forces during WW2 - but that too is simply an outline. You've got to go deeper than that if you want to understand what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 Although D day accelerated the end of war it should be also noted that the Russians were already turning the tide and beating the Germans on all of the eastern fronts. The D Day was also necessary to ensure the Russians did not liberate the whole Europe and thus gain control of the continent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 <i>Eliot Rosen: "... Today (June 5) is the 62nd Anniversary of D-Day ..."</i> <p>It was a great time to be a black American soldier. Or from the British colonies. Most African countries would still be under the colonial boot for at least 20 years, with millions of deaths to come. Hong Kong was only liberated in 1997. <p>They obviously don't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k2 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 another bob <br> i was born in poland and had a chance to see with my own eyes the leftovers of the german love from WWII. <br> k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eugene_scherba Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 sorry, thought you were a reasonable guy, Bob. Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliot_rosen1 Posted June 7, 2006 Share Posted June 7, 2006 "Paul, that is simply the outline of the truth." Yes Bob. Six million dead Jews, millions more Catholics, gypsies, gays, and other "undesirables" part of the Final Solution. People herded like cattle into trains in continuous streams to the death camps. Zyklon B gas. Crematoria. Mass graves. People's property stolen, money stolen, gold fillings from their teeth extracted, Auschwitz, Birkenau, Buchenwald. Just the outline of the truth. Just part of the fog of war. Get a clue. Monstrous evil, not the "outline" of the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george_b1 Posted June 7, 2006 Author Share Posted June 7, 2006 Eliot - Even before the Final Solution, the pogroms began. My foster Father's German Lutheran relatives lived in Mannheim and Heidelberg. They were professors and doctors and lawyers - - - but they were of the wrong political leanings. They opposed the NSDAP. They received some of the first Himmler Scholarships to Dachau, as the Nazis rounded up the "intelligencia" throughout Germany who might make trouble. I was in Germany in 1945-48 as a US Army officer. I perused the police and Party records in both cities. My Father's relatives apparently never made it back out of Dachau. Their homes and property were appropriated for use by Party officials. George (The Old Fud) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesrani Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Eliot - the whole "monstrous evil" thing can be said about Rwanda, the Great Bengal Famine, Indonesia in the Fifties, the Vietnam War and Stalin's Great Terror as well as the Holocaust - but these were all very different events. Each had different causes and different forces driving them. Who gained from pursuing such agendas at different times, and what were the prejudices that made them possible? Don't you think it's worth going beyond the outline of what happened to try and understand such events - which are, after all, very common indeed? Emotion is valuable, without a doubt, but it's no substitute for knowing your history in some detail and trying to see what leads to what. We all agree that it would be better if these events never happened again - but mere outrage is not the way to guarantee that. Indeed, you might argue that it can have the opposite effect - if we believe that any event is unique, that it has an ahistorical status and that to analyse it is effectively to diminish its importance, then we are effectively saying that nothing can be learned from it. On the contrary, events like the Holocaust are legion (each one with its unique features, of course) - and the more we know about them in detail, the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What happened to the Jewish people (and the homosexuals, Roma, and handicapped) was a great human tragedy, and one wishes that it had never happened. Rather than continually heap blame on people who had nothing to do with it, or to try and split hairs trying to find out the root causes, why don't we do what we can to make the world a better place for everyone. God created suffering to teach the rest of us important lessons about life. To not have learnt anything means that they all died in vain. I'm sure Eliot is a compassionate man and one can feel his suffering, it is a wound that cannot seem to heal with time. Why not do something positive in the memory of those who died, and help all the people of the world, no matter where they are from, Africa, Asia, Latin America, East Europe; in the eyes of God we're all the same. Until that happens, the killings will go on, and so will the lack of understanding. If the lessons of the Bible can be summed up on one sentence, "Love thy neighbor as they self." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nesrani Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "God created suffering..." Was that before or after squirrels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_m_johnson Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What does a "god" have to do with evolution? So many questions, one answer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 <i>Was that before or after squirrels?</i> ROTFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic_. Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 You cannot use logical constructs to argue the existence of God. True spirituality is beyond words and language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_m_johnson Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "True spirituality is beyond words and language.." And evolution is a science... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brambor Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Yes Sylvie. It gets much worse. It's an acquired taste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom_eitnier Posted June 8, 2007 Share Posted June 8, 2007 George, Seems that the website here has "lost" my 1945 history post, please drop me a line off this board, I`d very much like to talk to you personally about the Wetzlar experience and as things happened in Postwar Germany Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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