jonathan_maingot1 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 My primary need is for a MF format camera that can fuction in poor conditions; damp weather and cold weather (-30 degree Celsius = -22 degree Fahrenheit) While I won't be seeing -20F temperatures that much, I am looking at RB due to it "ruggedness". Mind you I'll also be shooting in a studio in a couple of years and the precision that the RZ is capable of is desirable as well. What I'm wondering is this... 1)Will the RZ ProII without a battery and with an RB 127mm KL, preform comparably to the RB ProSD with the same lens?2)Does the RB ProSD, in its design, or in your collective experiences, have a marked advantage over the RZ ProII in marginal operating conditions when using RB lenes? Any replies would be greatly apprieciated. Thanks. -Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyammons Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 RZ with a dead battery will only work at 1/400 so yes the RB would have an advantage there. I think you might be better off with a RB67 pro s. The RB is totally mechanical. I have owned both and just for general shooting there is not a whole lot of difference. They are both very smooth in operation, the RB just take 2 movements to cock the lens and advance the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_maingot1 Posted May 3, 2005 Author Share Posted May 3, 2005 Even with an RB lens, the RZ can only do 1/400? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guy_boily Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Jonathan, I've owned an RZ for 13 years. It is a workhorse. I have shot at least 15K plus with it and it's still working. Up in Nunavik I worked in -40 C with an external battery pack in my coat. Kayak expeditions trips are also a test. Cameras are always stored in board in dry bags and used in humid salty conditions for weeks on end. I clean them, dust them off and away we go, again. Hope this helps make you choice. I would have no trouble with an RB. www.guyboily.com Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner1 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Jonathan, I would not worry too much about the temperatures. Winter is my favorite time to go out and shoot and the temperatures will quite often reach -20C in southern Ontario in February. While those are not the same extremes as Guy, I have never had a problem with my RZ for my 3-5 hour Walks. The light meter that hangs around my neck is another story, as it sometimes begins to fade near the end of my walks while my RZ does not. (That?s without the external battery pack which I own but never use). I am usually more concerned about my film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner1 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Jonathan, I would not worry too much about the temperatures. Winter is my favorite time to go out and shoot and the temperatures will quite often reach -20C in southern Ontario in February. While those are not the same extremes as Guy, I have never had a problem with my RZ for my 3-5 hour Walks. The light meter that hangs around my neck is another story, as it sometimes begins to fade near the end of my walks while my RZ does not. (Thats without the external battery pack which I own but never use). I am usually more concerned about my film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
werner1 Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Sorry about the double post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyammons Posted May 3, 2005 Share Posted May 3, 2005 Not sure about that with an RB lens. you might want to email mamiya. I only shot RZ lenses on my RZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 The RZ body gets set to "RBL" on the shutter-speed ring when you use an RB lens; the shutter speed is controlled by the setting on the lens. What I'm not sure about is whether the camera will fire in RBL mode without a battery - I haven't tried this. If it will, then you can get the full range of shutter speeds with an RB lens on an RZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrico__ Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 I was just experimenting with this last night! I have an RZ, two RZ lenses, one RB lens. Honestly I think that the electronics in the RZ are unpredictable in cold weather. There was a post above that mentioned an external battery holder - this would have to be the go in cold weather. The same goes for a Mamiya 7ii rangefinder. Mamiya supplies an external battery holder however I dont know if it can be used with teh RZ, Im still to find out. I have always had issues with my RZ in cold weather, more specifically - shutter delay. And Im not talking -0c temperatures, Im just talking a cold winter morning in the studio. Not fun when you have people waiting around on you. After a $300+ service, mamiya described it as "an intermittent problem", fuckers. The camera has not changed in its behaviour..! As for using RB lenses... This is possible. Set the shutter dail to RBL setting. Set the dial of the shutter release to the default (dead battery) mode (if you are looking at the camera front on, then swing the dial to the right). In these modes the mirror will release, as will the shutter on the RB lens. NOTE: this is when you do not have a battery installed. Be aware that in this mode the camera has no lock mechanisms active. In other words, if you have a darkslide in place the shutter will fire regardless. Other issues (not such a big deal) are things like the distance scale not correlating with the lens. Ive never used teh distance scale anyhow. No big deal. I think the RB's are better built, the mechanics much smoother and more tight. Having said this, the RZ has been my primary camera in MF. I love the 50mm lens, as I do the 110mm. Now Im going to have to make a decision. Do I use the RZ as a mechanical camera and sell my RZ lenses and replace them with RB lenses? Or do I replace the whole outfit with an RB system? bummer. goodluck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrico__ Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Also, Bob mentioned "What I'm not sure about is whether the camera will fire in RBL mode without a battery - I haven't tried this. If it will, then you can get the full range of shutter speeds with an RB lens on an RZ." Well, you can get the full range of shutter speeds with an RB lens on an RZ body, no problem. BUT this is with the battery installed. Many people dont realise that the battery does not only control the shutter, it also controls the mirror release. If you have an RB lens, RZ body, set the dial to RBL and have NO battery then it still wont fire. If you have an RB lens, RZ body, set the dial to RBL, and have a battery installed, the all will be ok. If you have no battery then you will have to follow the procedure I described in the above post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan_maingot1 Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 Thanks, that clears it up. I'll go with the RB... and maybe get some freeweights in the mean-time... just to prepare eh. -Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photom Posted May 5, 2005 Share Posted May 5, 2005 Do not let the battery be an issue. Keep about 3 or 4 minimum in your bag of tricks with the camera at all times. They are very small and last at least a year without AE prism finder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blakley Posted May 6, 2005 Share Posted May 6, 2005 Thanks for the information, Enrico. One more question for you - how long does the mirror stay up when you shoot with no battery? I know it stays up for at least 1/400, because that's the manual setting with RZ lenses. Will it stay up for 1 second, if you set that speed on the lens and switch the body to RBL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrico__ Posted May 7, 2005 Share Posted May 7, 2005 Bob, The mirror will stay up indefinately. Its not as if the mirror resets it self, you have to re-set it. When you press the button, the mirror flips up first and the the shutter in the lens fires. ""Will it stay up for 1 second, if you set that speed on the lens and switch the body to RBL?"" >>- it will stay up for as long as you want it to stay up... every time you re-set the shutter, you re-set the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_g Posted May 10, 2005 Share Posted May 10, 2005 Considering the second hand market, if you wants the best of both world, buy a second hand RB PRO SD with KL lens, enjoy it now, and when you will be prepare to buy a digital back, then you will buy a RZ Pro II D Body with it, and you will keep your RB KL lens ... and maybe still use your RB for special occasions ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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