Leica 111C winding problem

[john_elder1]

Bought a Leica 111C which was delivered yesterday. 2 problems. The

most serious is the winding knob gets tiffer and stiffer as the roll

of film progresses thru the camera. For 3 consecutive rolls, between

frames 25 and 30, the winder knob became "loose", turned freely and I

couldn't advance the film frame by frame. On the first roll I thought

I just broke the winder. However, after I took the film out, the

winder seemed to work "normally". Second less serious problem is that

the shutter sounds really loud when compared to a Leica M;is that

loud sound normal for a Leica Screw Mount camera. Any knowledgable

comments would be greatly appreciated. The rangfinder is bright and

accurate. The shutter speeds also sound accurate when comapred to a

recently serviced M. What is the story with the winder?

[Karim Ghantous]

I can't say much about the winder - I have yet to disassemble a screw mount Leica. Sounds like a simple matter though.

 

However, the shutter *is* louder than the M. The M's shutter can be buttery smooth.

[jonathan_stark]

Can't comment on the winder, but I'll point out that a CLA might help the shutter sound a bit. It did with my IIIC. I recommend John Maddox for a screwmount Leica CLA.

[john_elder1]

What does John Maddox charge for a Cla?

[richard s.]

The winding knob should not be that stiff. Winding my Leica II is extremely smooth. [Mind you it has a full overhaul about a year ago.]

 

The shutter is slightly noisier than the M series. The noise at 1/20 should be different from 1/500 etc, just as on the M series. The shutter should not be "really loud" though.

 

If budget permits how about sending it in for a CLA.

 

Have fun with the screwmount. Fantastic cameras.

[john_shriver]

Perhaps you have a non-standard take-up spool? Too large an outside diameter, such that the film starts to bind against the body? Or maybe the slip clutch between the wind mechanism and the take up spool isn't slipping right. As the film winds up, it has to slip more and more.

 

The shutter on my IIIa isn't obtrusive, but it's got a clear clack. A IIIc should have better brakes, and be a bit quieter.

 

Sounds like a CLA in indeed in order, these are very repairable cameras.

[gerald_mullen1]

Hello: I have owned many III series Leicas. First, check that in loading the film that you engage the sprocket teeth on the take-up side. if not the film winds improperly and will eventually jam the

camera as yours did. Take all film out of camera and dismount lens.

Put shutter on bulb or T and press release this lets you look at film

plane. Sometimes fragments of film may get caught. Use a flashlight

and Canned air to blow out..also do same from bottom with base removed.Look for any marks on pressure plate indicating dragging or

too much tension on film..Basically the mechanism is two sprockets

and a pressure plate but the tolerances are very close so anything

in there will jam film. With the shutter open and the baseplate off

take a piece of white bond(printer0 paper 4in x 2 inches insert

through bottom and slide across film plane..it should move easily

from left to right without any resistance..you will see the paper

through the front of camera. These procedures may reveal the problem.

If OK then use up a roll by loading and leaving baseplate off and

just winding film and tripping shutter watching film in sprocket teeth

\and see how it goes. If not Ok..get CLA . By the way, as to noise

versus M's I have owned both and the quietest camera I have owned is

a IIIC built in 1943..Hope this helps

Gerry

[jim nichols]

Have you examined the negatives from the rolls that started rotating freely beyond #25? It would be informative to know whether or not the sprocket holes are torn at the point where the advance stopped. I agree that the takeup spool diamater could be a problem, but, if the film were not properly seated on the sprocket teeth when loaded, then the binding could result from deformed sprocket holes in the film.

Did you cut the leader as is suggested for the early Leicas?

[jtk]

For perspective, my IIIC and my several previous IIF IIIF IIIG all advanced smoothly just by dragging my forefinger twice past the advance knob. Some of the old boys argued that the M's lever advance was a bad idea because it put extra stress on the gizmos and didn't serve any purpose.

 

BTW, they don't need lube to work smoothly...they're quieter lubed but less reliable at freezing temps.

 

To lube it, take a small whale and squeeze it like a lemon...the way Barnack et al did.

 

Have that IIIC CLAed, pay the tariff and you'll love it forever, even after you foolishly sell it.

[jonathan_stark]

"What does John Maddox charge for a Cla"

 

In 2003 John charged me $270 for a CLA on a IIIC and a Summaron lens. Money well spent. As I posted above, the camera is now a bit quieter, winding and all controls are silky smooth, and the pictures it takes prove that the shutter speeds and rangefinder are in top adjustment.

 

John's address:

 

L & J Camera Repair,

109 Royal Oak Road,

Greenville, SC 29607

 

(864) 297-6931 - call 4:00-6:00 pm

[john_elder1]

I want to thank everybody for their help and advice, especially Gerald Mullin. I did everything that Gerald suggested. Even though the film was on the sprockets the winder went loose between 25 and 30. When it went loose the center of the take up spool would rotate, but the film would not advance. I really believe I have a standard take up spool. It has the metal slip where you insert the film as well as an arrow indicating the direction on the spool. The wind just gets stiffer as the roll progresses. Time for a CLA. What does the cost of a cla for a LTM run these days. I'm thinking of sending it to John Maddox;he seem to have the rep for Leica Screw Mount cameras. Thanks again.

[gerald_mullen1]

John: Try Essex camera repair in New jersey. They have a website.

IIIC leass than $200. i have used them. Good work.

gerald