Nature and Wind

[gloria_hopkins]

Tonight was my first experience with wind and the 4x5. I've found

that it's disenchanting at best.

 

You can't focus. You can't SEE. You can't make sure anything is

sharp. You can only see color and tone. Great for abstract artists,

not so great for someone with real and defined visions.

 

What happens if you spend a good chunk of your life getting to a

place that 's important to you?? The place is very important to you -

you must photograph it the best way you heart says to, and you have

no other chance. What do you do if you have wind that bounces your

camera all over the world? You have a solid, sturdy tripod and you

even hang your pack from it for added stability and it still bounces

and sways all over?

 

My learning curve from 35mm has been very gentle from the artistic

side but I have to say, this technical stuff is highly, highly

frustrating for me. Can a painter deal with a 4x5? Was this a big

mistake for me?

 

Please tell me something that won't break my heart yet again .....

[larry h-l]

If you have a couple of friends or can recruit a few passersby, get them to hold up a spare

focusing cloth, using it as a wind screen. I had to do that a couple of times at the Great

Sand Dunes, CO. It works fairly well.

[john_randall3]

Hi, Gloria

 

Rules: It's springtime. In the springtime, it's windy.

 

Also: Nature bats last. :)

 

I'll bet there isn't a single big format photographer here who can't emphathize with your latest experience. It sounds like it's a situation where it was a one-shot deal - and the odds weren't favorable.

 

I've learned to start off my journeys with a reminder not to take anything seriously - to ply the best techniques possible, keep my mental focus sharp, push hard for the shot, image well, and don't make any of those 28 mistakes lf photographers are always susceptible of making.

 

I also try, whenever possible, to avoid filming in the wind.

 

Sounds like you just may have the beginnings of a darned good wind story. Work it up - it might be better than the image you had in mind whe you began your adventure.

 

Best regards,

John W. Randall

[danny burk www.dannyburk.]

Gloria - Glad to see you getting out with the 4x5. Here are a few thoughts that may help you:

 

1) Were you in *strong* wind? That's a very bad combination with 4x5; a bellows camera and its longer exposure times mean that many LF photographers won't attempt to photograph in strong wind. If it's not so strong, you can use an umbrella to shield the camera during the exposure; I frequently do this when shooting with long lenses in a breeze. Of course, shielding the camera isn't going to solve the problem of moving foliage during a 2-second (often longer) exposure.

 

2) You can't focus or see? Are you using a fresnel? It can be a BIG help to even out the light and increase overall ground glass brightness. Are you using a wide angle lens (90mm or wider)? That will increase your difficulties, esp. if you're not using a fresnel. With wide lenses, are you aware that you need to move around the GG with the loupe, pointing its distant end at an angle toward the center of the GG as you try to see into the corners? That will help you see to focus much more easily. Without a fresnel, it can be even more difficult to compose with wide lenses because of their tendency to go dark in the corners. I hope you're using a normal lens rather than a wide, since wide lenses are a bad choice as a first lens for a new LF photographer.

 

3) Remember that LF has a steep learning curve compared to "do everything" cameras. They are VERY much worth the effort, so keep at it and don't give up! As I tell my students, LF is *different* but it doesn't have to be *difficult*. Be patient, and you'll gradually feel more comfortable, trust me. It won't happen overnight, or from just a couple of times in the field.

 

Best,

Danny www.dannyburk.com

[jonathan_brewer1]

Gloria................you're going to have 'teething problems' anytime you do anything the first few times, you need to give it time, to get used to the gear, and used to using it.

 

There are no bells and whistles w/LF, you have to do everything yourself, you don't have interlocks on LF cameras like you do on some MF gear, so you can make mistakes.

 

I use my 35mm less now, MF cameras are a pleasure for me to use, using my LF gear(4x5 and 8x10)is arduous but satisfying in what you can produce w/that big beautiful neg. I'll use any of these three formats depending on what I think is the best tool for the job. I think you have to separate how fun/pleasureable/easy a format is to use, from the end result you want to achieve. If I think LF is better for a shot, I'll use it even though I hate loading film in the dark.

 

Give it some time, LF is an acquired taste, anybody that says it's easy to use is lying(compared to the other formats), but it produces a majesty that is incomparable to anything else.

 

Seems to me you need to find out over time whether this is just the initial frustration of using something unfamiliar to you, or in the long term, something you don't really like, or something that given time, you will grow to love because of what it can produce.

 

 

I recently shot some 612 infrared in San Pedro, specifically the Port of Los, using my 4x5, I had to focus, frame, tighten everything down, close up the shutter, take off the binocular reflex, put on the 612 back, screw on the 89B infrared filter on the front of the lens, cock the shutter, pull out the darkslide from the back, fire the shutter, take off the 89B, tell myself not to forget to wind to another frame, make sure the dark slide is back in the back, take off the 612 back, put on the binocular reflex viewer........and then go on the next shot, and then do all this macaroni again for the next shot.

 

I shot three rolls this way, sheer tedium, but the payoff worth it if your stuff comes out well, and the fidelity and clarity of a big LF neg only accentuates it.

[bradley_artigue2]

Gloria <strong>I'm right there with you.</strong> My subject of choice this evening was my 3.5 month old baby. Set up the lighting kits, get everything rigged up, pre-focused to where he would be...theory is/was that I can a couple of good shots out of 15 or so and that will do for it. Did I mention this is 25 speed film? So the baby can't move for 1/4 of a second exposures....I'm suicidal I think.<p>

 

First shot goes off fine. The next I reinsert the darkslide and realize I'd loaded the film holder wrong and the sheet flops out inside the camera. Take fresnel off, remove sheet...recompose.<p>

 

Now, of course, this always even tempered child decides to start crying. Stop everything, feed baby. Baby falls into a deep sleep. I am literally sitting here waiting for the gap between 10 and 10:30 when his disposition is typically cheery...<p>

 

Next to me is a Nikon F4 with 400 speed film. I can shoot 36 frames in about 5 seconds with this camera, fully and usually damn near perfectly metered. The temptation is great...but - and here's the moral of my story - <strong>you WILL finally get that first 4x5 negative that is perfect. And you'll never look back at the frustrations of getting it right.</strong>

[Troll]

LF format can be/is a frustrating PITA. There's a good reason that almost all LF landscape work looks so boringly static. It may not be for you. I've been doing it for over 50 years, and while I get great pleasure from working with it, I recognize that my success rate for getting any pictures better than ordinary is ZERO PERCENT. The worst time comes when you turn your back to get a different filter and you hear a sickening CRASH behind you. When you turn around a gust of wind has turned your focusing cloth into a perfect sail, and your formerly anvil weight camera/tripod now lies shattered on the ground.

[steve_hamley]

Gloria,

 

Wind is a thing all of us have to deal with. LF photogs doing workshops in the Smokies were pelted with 10-30 mph winds; I assume you're still in the east and probably speaking of this storm.

 

But wind is a transient thing. It will always stop long enough to photograph if you care enough about the place to wait that long. :^)

 

Steve

[herb_cunningham]

I have an industrial strength umbrella I got in NYC a few years ago. Get an assistant to

hold the umbrella, if he/she cannot stand up with the umbrella in the wind, quit,( my

umbrella will keep two people dry in a heavy rain, so it is almost like a golf umbrella)

 

 

otherwise, you can do pretty good. Also, a deardorff (and I am sure others), has a pretty

stiff bellows, and they are not so affected by wind.

 

Lastly: put your back to the wind if that is possible-then it won't bother the camera.

[gauthier]

Gloria, my idea is that you still think in 35 mm terms. A view camera is not meant to be used in harsh environments: 35 mm SLR's were designed precisely to fill this gap. Use your view camera to do the jobs where it shines, when you have the leisure to work slowly and deliberately.

 

Would you setup a canvas to paint during a storm? I guess not...

[edward_richards]

I can recommend an old Linhof technika with a cammed lens for this sort of weather. The camera is rigid and I can focus with the rangerfinder more accurately than with the GG under all but the most perfect conditions. You can also turn it on its side so the base blocks the wind for the bellows. You can use the sport finder and use lens rise and shift. No tilt without the GG, but in the wind, who cares?

[stevewillard]

I spend a lot of time in the high peaks of Colorado at 10,500' above sea level. Lots of wind

up there. I use a BTZS focusing cloth which is wind functional, and I use the biggest

tripod head bogen makes which is the 3057. I dont think they make the head anymore,

but you can still pick it up on ebay, and some stores still have them in stock. Try to stay

with the latest models that those big quick release plates.

 

I have a 720mm lens and for years I only got one sharp image with it. Once I switched to

the big haunken tripod head every time I use the lens the images are sharp. I have also

shot in some pretty strong wind with that head and still got sharp images. The head has

a huge quick release plate and lots of steel.

 

Many people believe hanging rocks from your tripod will do the trick, but I no longer

believe that. Rocks will help, but it will not be enough. I now believe that most LF camera

wind movements occur at the point where the camera attaches to the head (plate) and the

head itself. Wind can setup a lot of torque at those points. So you need some steel there

to counter the torquing vibrations. The 3057 for me did the trick , but I must warn you it

is as heavy as my tripod. Since I started using the head I never had to hang a rock bag

from my tripod.

 

You also have to manage wind as well. Wind generally comes in gusts and you need to

time your exposure between gusts. With a little practice you can get real good at it.

 

Just for the record I use the Bogen 3021Pro tripod. It is true that carbon fiber tripods are

stiffer (and a lot more expensive), but that is not where the movement and vibrations are

occurring. So I believe carbon fiber tripods are a waste of money. I had two older 3021

tripods, and I am now upgrading to the newer models because of all the great

improvements Bogen has made over the years. Prior to the new 3021Pro, I though every

tripod on the market was poorly designed no matter who made it and how much it cost.

 

Hope this helps.

[keith_laban]

<a href="http://www.keithlaban.co.uk">Keith Laban Photography</a><p>Gloria, wind is the bane of my life and I'm not talking indigestion here. I'm one of those unfortunates who like to capture every leaf on the tree and every vein on the leaf. I hate to think how many hours/days/weeks/years I've wasted waiting for a lull in that bloody wind, standing there like a lemon and trying to look occupied whenever anyone passes by.<p>Keep an eye on the early morning local weather forecasts. Anything more than 10mph and I don't bother waking up let alone getting out of bed. A typical shutter speed on a typical Laban shoot would be 1/2 to 2 seconds; makes me laugh when people say that you should "exercise" those rarely used slow shutter speeds.<p>Oh, almost forgot to mention that I use medium format; doubt I'd <b>ever</b> get out of bed if I was using anything larger ;-)

[joseph_kayne]

Gloria, didn't you know that "WIND" is a nasty 4 letter word to the LF photographer?!?!

 

Joe.

[jim_rhoades]

I live on the east coast. Two years ago I packed my wagon with one 8x10 and two 4x5's and my 35mm. I had 20 8x10 holders and 50 4x5 holders all loaded and packed in coolers. After hitting Colorado the wind picked up to a steady 40 mph. Stayed that way all through Utah and Arizona for three weeks. I came home with a bunch of 35mm slides.:-(

 

Only thing to do is take another trip.

[gloria_hopkins]

Thanks guys. I'm very touched that many of you took so much time to help me try and understand. I'm discouraged as the wind wasn't all that fierce. But I don't give up easy and I seem to like to torture myself so I'm sticking with it.

 

Many thanks for your heartfelt responses. I feel really stupid for whining like this.

[steve_hamley]

Gloria,

 

Have a little cheese and welcome to the LF club :)

 

Wind is a problem, but there usually ways to deal with it, and I have the film to prove it. You'll do fine once you get used to it, and it will make your smaller format stuff better too.

 

Steve

[leonard_evens]

I don't know if anyone mentioned it, but I've found that often there is little wind very early in the morning, just after sunrise.

[big toys are better]

Hmmm... my current BIG tripod is an old Bogen 3035 with the 3057 head-- heavy and a bit awkward to use but pretty sturdy (the 3039 head is another option). But a Gitzo 13 or better yet 15 series carbon tripod base would be far better base to cart around in the field, like maybe a 1548GT-- oooohhh! However, a $300 Giotto would do almost as well most of the time. I'm hooked on the Bogen quick-change camera plates, especially the 4x4 units I have on my field cameras. Again, heavy, but oh so sturdy.

 

And as heavy as the current Bogen is, I STILL add weight when it's wind-- no matter how splayed the legs are-- usually either a camera bag or something else that is handy, like a bottle/bag or two of water, sand or rocks. IF your bellows is extended out more than about 12" (such as is common with with 240mm and longer lenses), it might be useful to also have either a monopod (with a compact ball head) or a small tripod attached to the front end of the rail to provide extra support and dampen vibrations (I also have a Bogen articulated flexarm that works well for this purpose). My 8x10 field camera actually has a moveable tripod base plus another tripod mount inserted on the extension rail, making all of this very easy to do, and any handy person can add their own 1/4" or 3/8" insert to a wooden field camera. A second tripod makes for more weight to carry but that will stiffen up the camera frame even more when wind is an issue, and would also allow the use of a smaller/lighter primary tripod.

 

Finally, placing your body upwind of the camera is almost always a good investment in any wind, unless of course, the wind is coming straight over the front of the camera.

 

So relax, no reason for your heart to bleed....

[stevewillard]

R,

 

This is true that carbon fiber is lighter, stiffer, and easier to carry. However, if resources

are scarce, then one does not need a carbon fiber tripod. I have one, but I love the new

leg locking system that Bogen has on the 3021Pro. I can set the tripod real fast. It can

get real close to the ground in three ways. Invert the center post, remove the center post

lower part and spread the legs flat, or run the center post horizontally, spread the legs

flat, and then tilt the tripod slightly putting the head right into the ground. With the later I

can get my camera about an 0.5 inches from the ground. Off topic, sorry.

 

To further help dampen camera vibration, I take a long bungee cord loop it over the front

barrel of my lens, run both ends of the cord underneath the head between the tripod legs,

and then hook the cord ends around the knobs on each side of the back standard. I then

draw the cord tight with a cord knob. This makes a triangle with its top part being the

extended base plate of the camera. The whole thing is put into stiff ridged tension and

does a great job at snuffing out vibration and movement. The weight of the bungee cord

is not significant.

[ken_schroeder]

Gloria, regarding your focusing problems: I went through the same frustrations. The problem may be head position. Set up your camera in a bright, quiet area, preferably away from inquiring passersby. If you have a choice of lenses, put your longest lens on the camera (something around 210 is ideal). The reason for using the longer lens is the larger images magnification is much easier for learning. Use a large darkcloth to allow yourself to have your eyes about a foot from the groundglass. Move your head in and out until you find a comfortable distance. In order to see the corners well, you will have to move your head from side to side and up and down. (This is more important with a standard groundglass.) This quiet practice time will give you the opportunity to become accostumed to viewing and focusing with your camera. Do this several times before considering the purchase of a fresnal or other kind of focusing screen.

 

Keep it simple. Don't bring film. By all means don't fuss with camera movements. All this will come along soon enough. Give yourself the chance to start a good foundation by learning to view and focus. This is one of the most critical building blocks (or stumbling blocks for those who ignore it) in using a view camera.

 

There is an added side benefit. Once you become accostumed to carefully examining your entire groundglass, the corners and edges of your composition will improve with any camera. Vermeer would have been an outstanding view camera user.

 

Do not become discouraged. The skill at the end of the day is well worth the frustration during the day.

 

As for the wind.....patience.....the wind gods may reward you (or not).

[philippartridge]

See, Gloria, lots of support here, the experiences are the same for many. Can't help with LF camera specific issues (I shoot MF) but my subject matter environment is almost always windy. Having walked scores of days without being able to take a single frame, I think you need to plan for the special days of stillness and great light during the 'bad' photographic days, and enjoy these days for themselves. And keep in mind 35mm shots are not going to be any good in big winds either.

 

Hope springs eternal - two weeks ago I spent 6-7 hours standing in freezing rain showers and incredible light waiting for pauses; and got 50 frames and 6-8 keepers. BTW, I use the 'tread on the shock cord' technique for tripod anchoring, works fine. Hanging bags move too much, IME, and I can never get them to work well with varying tripod heights. Sincere wishes for your endeavours - it's a patience game.

[kurt_deruyter]

I think you have to take into account all the elements of the equipment you're

working with. As I work often in quite windy conditions, I studied my

equipment and every purchase was looked into for stability. I have a Linhof

Technika now with a Gitzo 1548 GT tripod and a big Manfrotto ball head on it.

Important are also the big quickchanging plates, they improve stability. I have

been using it in extremely windy conditions lately in Scotland with long and

short lenses and with shutter speeds up to 1/2 second. The sharpness was

impeccable for all shots. it even surprised me. Experience with other tripods

learned me that a carbon tripod is not only a delight in carrying it around but it

definitely improved stability a lot. It's true the carbon tripods are a lot more

expensive but if I travel to Scotland and encounter windy conditions, it'd cost

me a lot more than a tripod if I can't take any picture...

[big toys are better]

To Kurt-- I'm envious of the 1548GT-- it's my dream tripod-- what tripod head and riser do you have on it and how do you like it?

 

To Stephan-- I found the 3021 family to be great for up to medium format but a bit too light for view cameras, especially the bigger and heavier versions. And Giotto's large CF units aren't a whole lot more than an aluminum version- about $300 for the legs (roughly half the cost of the Gitzo 1548 unit but also lighter and less rigid). However, as I noted above, almost any decent tripod can be "stiffened" and "dampened" by careful set-up, adding weight and if needed hooking up a second unit to the extended camera. In this regard two lighter tripods that are carefully set up and weighted can then be superior to a single heavy unit when the camera bellows are greatly extended.

[kurt_deruyter]

R,

 

Used to have a Manfrotto on it. It was heavy enough but really a pain for exact

movements. So I changed it for a FOBA SUPERBALL BALLA (swiss, so very

exact and a true delight in its operations) but again... quite expensive. But I'm

extremely satisfied with this ballhead and it is rock solid.

 

I don't really use a riser (centre column I suppose you mean). Don't even

know if there exists one for this tripod, certainly not with Gitzo. With its 2,5m of

heigth, I never missed it anyway.

 

One more word: You're right to dream of this tripod. I doubted for about 6

months before I bought it, now I wonder how I ever lived without it...