Lens for 4x5 AND 8x10

[red_jenny]

OK by some strange confluence of forces, I have come into possession

of a Calumet CC400 4x5 as well as a Cambo SXC 8x10, and I am now in

the process of budgeting for several items such as a tripod and dark

cloths and focusing loupes etc. -- but of course the main budget-

blowers will be the lens. So, do I get separate lenses for the 4x5

and the 8x10, or can I get an 8x10 lens that also works on the 4x5 --

course, I know barely nothing about all this stuff...

[rich long]

If it works for the 8x10, it will also cover the 4x5. You might study the lens comparison charts over at http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

[donald_brewster]

A couple of lightweight and relatively inexpensive suggestions that will work well on both -- a 6.25" Wollensak (wide for 8x10 and normal for 4x5) and/or a 240mm G-Claron (slightly long for 4x5 and slightly wide for 8x10).

[jbq]

Being patient on eBay can bring some jewels. I paid less than $400 for a brand new Nikon 240/5.6 W ($1200 at B&H). Amazing lens.

 

Even my 360/6.8 works on my 4x5 without a problem (despite its big size).

[eric_leppanen]

Reasonably sized (and priced) modern lenses which cover 8x10 start at around the 210-240mm focal lengths. Popular, lightweight multi-coated 8x10 lenses in the 210mm+ focal lengths include the Fuji 240A, Nikon 300M, Fuji 300C and Fuji 450C; among single-coated lenses the G-Clarons (210, 240, 270, 305) and Fuji 250 6.7 are quite popular.

 

Focal lengths below 210mm are wide-angles on 8x10, which can start getting huge (and expensive) if you want any extra image circle for movements. So for my 4x5 and 8x10 cameras, I use common lenses for focal lengths above 210mm, and format-specific lenses at or below 210mm.

 

Common rules-of-thumb are 1) if you shoot strictly black-and-white there is less need for multi-coating, and 2) if you use 8x10 solely for B&W contact prints then many less-expensive classical lenses will perform just fine. The classical Wolly 6.25" mentioned above is a lightweight wide-angle lens used by many 8x10 shooters.

[adrian_seward]

You can use the same, but...

 

There are a few things to consider. A normal length lens for the 8x10 will max out the

bellows on the cc400. I can focus a 360mm on mine, but to get any movements I had to

put the lens on a 2" extender lensboard. Also, the rear element of my 360mm caltar just

barely fits into the cc400 opening. You have to hold it at an angle to fit it in, or did until I

went to the extender board.

 

And that's the next thing-- can you get a board that fits both? I think you could put the

lens on a cc400 board and get an adaptor for the 8x10, but I'm not sure.

 

Anyway it will work, but there may be some tricks. Lens length is another question. My

360 is a normal for an 8x10, but I love it on 4x5. It's the lens I use most by far. However,

I seem to be seriously in the minority in that preference.

 

Also consider that you will probably use the 4x5 more-- you can transport it so much

more easily and it's much cheaper. So maybe get a good 4x5 lens and a cheap 8x10 lens.

With a much larger neg the lens will be a little less critical anyhow.

 

Anyway, no real answers from me, but maybe some things to think about.

[Troll]

Here's what's gonna be an extremely unpopular opinion on this forum: Get rid of one camera or the other.

[john_cremati]

I recently did a search on "sold" Wollensak Lenses on Ebay and found that they really sell for very little money.......They would probably be great entry level lenses....... The Raptar 8 1/2 inch or 210mm lens I believe can be used as as wide angle on the 8x10 and is considered a normal taking lens for 4x5.....It will fit directley into a Alphax shutter with no machining nessisary if you buy it in barrel.... ......The problem you have is switching lens boards and it may in fact be good advice to get rid of one of the cameras...... You can probably find a 4x5 reducing back for the Cambo .....I personally would go with that...... John Cremati

[jason_greenberg_motamedi]

I have to agree with Bill: Don't try to do two formats at once, its too confusing. LF on a

budget is enough of a compromise, so pick either 4x5 or 8x10 and sell the other camera

for lens money...

[dave_moeller]

As others have noted, loads of lenses in the 210-250mm range work very well on 4x5 and 8x10. Depending on the bellows on your 4x5, a 300mm is another good choice. (I think the CC400 will handle a 300mm lens, but I'm not sure.) The Fujinon 250mm f/6.3 will cover 8x10, and the Fujinon 250mm f/6.7 will cover 8x10 with room to spare. The smaller image circle of the 6.3 means extremely limited front movements on the 8x10 at infinity, but the price is substantially lower.

 

There are shorter lenses out there that will cover 8x10, including the Super Angulon 165mm f/8. Some process lenses in the 150-170mm range will just cover 8x10 (I have a Konica Hexanon GRII 150m f/9 that just barely covers 8x10, for example). Depending on your need for movements, if you're willing to go without a shutter there are some pretty good deals out there in older process lenses now that the process cameras are being retired in favor of digital.

 

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this or not, but if you are going to use the same lens on two cameras that take two different lens boards, it's worth it to make an adapter lensboard for the larger camera that will hold the lensboards for the smaller camera. This way you can mount your multi-use lenses on the smaller boards (I have all of mine on Linhof-style boards that fit my 4x5) and only carry the one adapter board for the 8x10. This can save quite a bit of space.

 

Be well.

Dave

[ole_tjugen]

At present the only lenses I use on 18x24cm (Euro version of 8x10", but mine is a plate camera and won't take modern holders) are a 240/420mm f:5.6 Symmar convertible, and a 165mm f:6.8 Angulon. I use these same lenses on all sizes from 9x12cm through 4x5" and 5x7" to 18x24cm.

 

The 165mm Angulon is close to being a "normal" lens for 4x5", moderately wide on 5x7", and wide on 8x10". 240mm is long on 4x5", about normal on 5x7", and slightly wide on 8x10". Using the rear element alone gives a sharp enough center to be a very long 4x5", long 5x7", and "portrait length" on 8x10".

[daver1]

Working on 8x10 without first mastering 4x5 is a little like climbing Mount Everest without training first. It's doable, but you'll pay dearly for it, and it will likely frustrate the hell out of you. I would focus on the 4x5, put away the 8x10 for now, but maybe buy lenses with an eye towards fitting both, so you can grow into the other one. It sounds like this is your first foray into LF, so taking the time to understand the nuances of the 4x5 would be beneficial before jumping in the deep end.<p/>

-D<p/>

<a href="http://coyoteimages.com">Coyote Images</a>

[big toys are better]

First, YES, there should be a standard adapter board for the 8x10 Cambo that will adapt to the Calument 4x4 boards-- after all, Calumet is the U.S. distributor of Cambo (Heck, they may even own it!).

 

And my advice is to put most of your lenses on the 4x4 boards (as I have done) and then make whatever adapter boards necessary for your new cameras. The 4x4 boards will take up much less room in the camera bag and accept up to a Copal 3 shutter, but the stickler is the rear element-- and a 165mm SA WON'T fit into the 4x4 opening.

 

As far as lens choices, the CC400 has as I recall an 18" draw, so that is about 450mm, probably a bit more when you consider the back design. That is good for most lenses for 4x5 and many for 8x10-- up to about a 300-360mm assuming you want to be able to focus relatively closely, or a 450mm at infinity only, maybe even a 480mm at infinity.

 

G-Clarons in the 210mm, 240mm, 305mm and 355mm will all work on both formats (and cameras) and are relatively inexpensive used, plus the 210mm is a fine wideangle for 8x10 that is roughly comparable to about a 28mm on a 35mm camera- just stop it down to about f/22 or so. Nikon and Fujinon lenses, particularly the compact and apo series will also work (check the specs though, as I recall that the Nikon 240mm "M" doesn't cover 8x10 well, while the Fujinon 240mm "A" does). Forget the faster German and even Japanese lenses for now if budgetting is a concern, and same story with wideangles-- even the old 165mm Super Angulon is an expensive option and definitely not useable with the 4x5 (the rear element won't even fit inside the front standard).

 

IF you want a real wideangle- then go for a slow 90mm Grandagon (f/6.8), Super Angulon (f/8) or Nikon (f/8), none of which would be useful for the 8x10 UNLESS you are doing closeups. Adding a 75mm or 65mm later will give you even more breadth in your views, but still limited to 4x5 film. IN doing all of this, plan ahead! Pick a wideangle family and choose your WA lenses wisely so you need only one or at most two center filters-- they cost as much or more than some lenses!

 

BTW-- have you seen the price of 8x10 film holders? You may yet decide to sell that 8x10! but don't do it before you've shot some film and gotten a few good exposures-- you may well be converted for life!

[big toys are better]

Make that the Nikon 200mm "M"....

[edward_kimball]

If you get good lenses they will probably outlast your cameras and probably the one you replace them with. The cameras won't wear out but you will find faults with them and trade up. You should take into consideration what camera you might use in the future and how you will use it. Both of these will handle a 240mm f/5.6 Sironar but if you replace them with a 4X5 field camera, that will be a lot of weight to handle.

[sergio_ortega7]

There is a narrow focal length range of modern lenses--I would say roughly between 200mm to 300mm--that will work well with either format. These include the Nikkor M series, Schneider G-clarons, the 5.6 240mm lenses from all the current manufacturers, and a few others. Wide angle lenses for 8x10 (210mm and shorter) will usually be too large and cumbersome for the 4x5 format, and longer lenses for 8x10 (360mm 5.6 lenses and longer) will also be too large for the 4x5 cameras. There are some notable exceptions...I use the Fuji 450mm on both formats with great success.

 

The issues to consider are weight, size and coverage. Theoretically you can use any lens on a 4x5 you can use on the 8x10 format as long as the lens mounts on the 4x5 lensboard and the rear element fits into the 4x5 camera's front standard. Keep in mind, though, that at the bellows extensions required for 12" (and longer) lenses, the 4x5 camera may not be strong enough to adequately support a large/heavy lens, like a 300mm Schneider 5.6 Apo-Symmar. Stick with the smaller, more compact models and you should be OK.

[ken_lee11]

I disagree that using 2 formats at the same time is a bad idea. I think each will shed light on the other. 8x10 and 4x5 are something like violin and cello. The more you understand the one, the more you appreciate the nature of the other. You will become a better musician, because your ear will develop.