I found my dream camera and I feel blasphemous

[paul_mcevoy]

Hi there,

 

I'm guessing this will not go over well, but I'm interested in hearing

your opinions on this.

 

I've been thinking about getting a quality rangefinder for a while.

My interests are photojournalism and documentary work. I have a Fed 2

that is quirky as hell, but I've taken some of my best photographs

with it. I wanted to see if I liked the feel of a rangefinder and I do.

 

I was at B&H last weekend and tried a Bessa R3a and totally fell in

love with it. I found the focusing very intuitive, the action smooth,

the viewfinder super clear and the metering easy to use. I liked

having the AP settings and manual capabilities too. I was totally

taken with the camera.

 

Here's the blasphemous part. I also tried an M6 while I was in the

store. I liked it, but I found the ergonomics of it much more clunky.

Harder to move around the camera, less intuitive, less features,

harder to focus. The only thing I liked better was the build quality

and that it did indeed feel like a tank.

 

So I'm interested in criticisms of the Bessa. I've heard the Baseline

length (??) is too long (??) but I'm not sure what that means. I've

also heard complaints about the build quality, but it seemed pretty

good to me. Maybe not as good as the Leica, but could I expect the

Bessa to hold up?

 

I may be going to journalism graduate school in the fall and would

probably be buying the bessa to accompany me.

 

Don't worry about flaming me, I don't really know too much about these

cameras, I'm interested in your opinions.

 

Thanks

Paul

[gp_.]

About the only truly significant difference IMHO between these two cameras is the sound

of the shutter. Can you live with the metallic clack of the Bessa, or did you prefer the cloth

shutter on the M? Only you can answer that. (I'm assuming cost is not an issue, otherwise

the question is moot). You didn't tell us what focal length lens you see yourself using

most? Baseline length should not be a problem if you are using 50mm or wider. good

luck.

[saotome_genma]

<P><a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/leica.htm">35 mm Rangefinders & Viewfinders</a>

[gordon_lewis1]

The Bessa R3A's rangefinder has a shorter base length than the Leica M6. This means it's fine for focusing lenses with a focal length of 50mm or less as long as the aperture is less than f/1.4. With lenses above 50mm you should limit your maximum aperture to f/3.5 to ensure enough depth-of-field to hide the rangefinder's inherent inaccuracy, especially at distances less than 10 feet. That said, even if you were to choose the M6 you wouldn't find it much fun to use focal lengths above 50mm because the frame in the viewfinder is so small. (This is true of all 35mm rangefinder cameras, not just the M6.)

 

Regarding the question of durability, your perception about the Leica being more durable than the Bessa is accurate. On the other hand, neither one is invulnerable. How rugged a camera do you need? The Bessa might not last "a lifetime," but it's certainly durable enough to survive moderate use for at least five years. Not bad, considering it costs about a third of what a new Leica M6 would cost.

 

The bottom line here is that there's nothing wrong with you or your judgement if you prefer the Bessa R3A over the Leica M6. Neither one will inhibit your ability to create a fine photograph. Get the camera you prefer, not the one other people say you should want.

[________1]

Journalism graduate school, film camera... you're kidding?

[bill_marshall1]

Paul, the Bessa base length is substantailly shorter than Leica's. Therefore, less precision in focusing - especially at wider apertures & with longer lenses. The widest angle that the R3A provides frame lines is 40 mm, a drawback since the strength of a rangefinder is with wide angle lenses. An auxiliary viewfinder needs to be used on this camera with any lenses wider than 40 mm; these lenses must then be focused through the viewfinder first & then have the picture composed through the separate viewfinder.

 

If you didn't like the Leica, you may prefer the Zeiss Ikon, due to be on the market in a couple of months. Longer base line & frame lines for wider angles. You might also look to see if you can find a new Konica Hexar RF, similarly spec'd. The Hexar RF is discontinued, but since you're in the New York area, try www.photostop.net in New Jersey or Camera Wholesalers in Stamford, CT.

[toby_boudreaux]

Paul -

I can't speak for the R3A or R2A, but rather for the R2. Like everything, it's sort of hit-or-miss where quality is concerned. I've had some very annoying problems with my Bessa R2 and have pretty much written off my specific camera as a lemon. On the other hand, folks like Ian Kennedy (who posts here) have had excellent luck with their Bessas.

 

I agree that the viewfinder is much nicer than my M6 TTL and the ergonomics are better. The film view window and hinged back are also excellent. A faster shutter is made possible by the metal curtains, so that isn't a fair comparison in some ways.

 

I shoot with an M6 now, and will likely supplement it with an M3 once my metering skills get better (and once I find myself with some spare cash), but I still use my Bessa (despite its problems) and highly recommend them to folks.

 

Be sure to get it new, with a warranty, from a reputable place. As much as I'd like to suggest going with an indy dealer, I'd say stick with a place like BH so you can really count on an exchange if need be (and not feel bad for it).

 

The shutter is loud, and the advance lever is chunkier. Those are the only two things we really experience on rangefinders, so in a sense it's not as smooth or elegant as the Leica.

 

The meter is excellent, the VF is the best I've ever seen, and the camera is affordable and -- when you get a good one -- reliable.

 

You *will* move "up" to a Leica at some point, if you like rangefinder photography. The Bessa will carry you thru those first few years quite well, though.

 

One thing to remember about Leicas - they will always be around, so you'll always have a chance to pick one up!

[brett_davis1]

I have to agree with Jamie J; if you're going into graduate school for journalism work, and are interested in photojournalism, you might as well go digital. Digital has completely taken over the field, with the occasional pocket of resistance (Nat. Geo?) and even those are crumbling. You will be expected to know your way around digital equipment and Photoshop.

[scott_mcloughlin]

M6 TTL and M7 have TTL flash, which can be convenient (I think so).

 

Leica M bodies have a longer RF base length, which allows for more precise focusing. Not an issue except for longer FL's and/or very wide appertures.

 

Modern M's also have three available VF magnifications, and the .58 and .72 (the most common VF mag) have 28mm frame lines.

 

M bodies have quiet silk shutters.

 

M body style is streamlined and elegant. I find the ergonomics nearly perfect. At times I bemoan the sheer weight of such a relatively small body, though :-)

 

Other than that, Bessa's are superior in many ways. Easier film loading, higher max shutter speed, higher flash sync, somewhat brighter VF (IMO), lower price, no silk shutter burn to worry about, AE (on the R23a bodies) and so on. Very capable cameras!

 

I guess I'm pretty set regarding RF cameras, but I'm curious to see/handle a Zeiss body. Longer RF baselength, 28mm frame lines, streamlined body design - but a metal shutter with higher flash sync (but no TTL, AFAIK). Could be very nice camera.

[gerald_mullen1]

Hi: if you are going to Journalism Grad school then you will need

a digital outfit definitely. The old days of Leicas and Life magazine

are history. Today it's all digital capture, Cd downloads, edits

and composition in Photoshop or other video protocalls. Save the

bessa for weekends. You will need modern, cutting edge technology

in your chosen field..just to compete.

gerry

[john_shriver]

The R3A has a very respectable effective baseline for the rangefinder, due to the 1X finder. Pretty comprable to the 0.58X finder M cameras.

 

But you should probably stay away from the Leica 50/1.0 (Noctilux), 75/1.4, and other lenses demanding a very accurate rangefinder. (That won't be hard on a student budget.)

 

The downside of the R3A compared to the R2A is that you can't really use a 35mm lens with the R3A's built in finder. The R2A has that, but the lower finder magnification means that your focusing accuracy with fast/long lenses will suffer.

 

Lots of folks really like the 35mm lens point of view, so you have an important decision to make between the R3A and R2A.

[eric friedemann]

Paul, reading your post, I would ask if you are actually taking photography classes as a J-school grad? As has been noted, if you are going to be shooting for classes, you'll need a digital rig. If you are just shooting casual personal images you could obviously shoot whatever you want.

[dan flanders]

For your personal photography, if you get decent photos with the Fed 2 then stick with it. Have it CLAd by a competent technician and spend you money on a good digital outfit for your PJ work. Don't be seduced into the expensive stuff but stick to something simple that will give you four or five megapixels and a SIMPLE to operate chassis. You don't need a handheld computer to take pictures. All the bells and whisttles on some the more expensive models are only impediments to good picture making. All you have to do is get the image on the sensor and let Photoshop do the manipulating. I have a Fed 2 that is probably the most dependable camera in my battery. I have an M6 and several other Leicas, but I don't mind taking the Fed out in the weather when I would prefer to leave the Leicas at home. I don't try to use all my Leica lenses on it but instead have low priced FSU lenses that will still make good images but won't ba a large financial loss if bad luck strikes.

[vic_.]

You should also ask this question on the Street and Documentary forum. The people there have a lot of talent and tremendous experience in journalistic type of photography. You don't see as much of that on the Leica forum (not at all a knock against this forum), as this is more of a gear sub-culture, with some bizarre (but interesting) offshoots:

<p>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/forum?topic_id=2061">Street and Documentary Forum</a>

<p>

Best of luck!

[aizan_sasayama]

You might want to look into the Konica Hexar AF and RF. See the CameraQuest site

linked earlier.

[jim_mcbride]

Paul: I don't think any 35mm camera will ever replace the Leica M3 in my affections, but

the Bessa R3A comes the closest.

[paul_neuthaler]

"There is nothing like a dame -- or the largest of the rangefinder base length camers: The M3"

[bill_marshall1]

". . . the largest of the rangefinder base length cameras: The M3."

 

NOT. Zeiss Ikon ContaxII & III were longer. Current ZI is longer. Magnification? M3 = .91. Nikon SP, CV Bessa R3A both = 1.0x.

[andrew_c2]

To those who are saying that Paul needs a digicam because he's going to journalism school, not so fast. Paul, what kind of journalism are you doing? Photo? Magazine/Newspaper writing? TV? Radio? Also, if you are including a photographic aspect in it, does your school loan out cameras? If it does, I don't see a reason that you need a digicam... you can borrow one and use a film rangefinder at the same time. But, if you're buying a camera for your classes, then yes, a digicam is best. I'd suggest a 10d/20d.

 

If you don't need the whisper-quiet shutter of the Leica, then go with the Bessa. Much cheaper; the lenses are generally very good, and some are great (others are not... search out the various ones). I disagree with an early poster who said that a Bessa will not last 5 years... They have barely been on the market for 5 years, and except for early batches, appear to be running fine. And I think it will be easier/cheaper to find Bessa shutter service, as they are the same platform as the Nikon FM-10 and Olympus OM-xxx. Spun off from much more generic equipment than Leicas.

[paul_mcevoy]

Thanks so much for all your advice.

 

Re: digital vs. film for journalism...I was thinking that I would buy a Digital Rebel XT and the Bessa. I think that I would get a lot more enjoyment with those two than the equivalent professional models at much more cost.

 

Harry's idea that I should stick with the fed interests me...very cheap. I'm not psyched about the teensy little rangefinder window, lack of metering and clunkiness of the shutter speed control. But it is very solid.

 

Anyway, thanks...I can make a much better decision when the time comes.

 

Paul

[paul_mcevoy]

With regards to what kind of program I'm doing...I don't want to jinx it, but I'm on the waiting list of a school with a really amazing grad journalism program. I don't have a ton of experience, this for me is an opportunity to explore. I'm also a writer.

 

Photography wise, I'm very interested in immersion photo projects, and less so with daily news photography. I found this book pretty inspiring, I think it blends the line between art photography and photodocumentary. I think it was shot with a rollieflex.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/3908161290/qid=1112125309/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/104-7172502-6101530?v=glance&s=books

 

Thanks!

[bill_marshall1]

A rangefinder will make you a better photographer, Paul, regardless of what you use down the line. In fact, the digital camera you'll use when you get into the profession hasn't even been invented yet.

[derek_stanton2]

Paul,

 

I would advise skipping the Digital Rebel. Spend a little more money for the 20D. The

images from each may be the same, but the Digital Rebel's viewfinder is even smaller than

most DSLRs with 1.6x crop factors. And, unless you have very small hands, the new 350

body just may not be a good fit. I think Canon has been sacrificing ergnonomy and good

design toward winning some ill-conceived Size War. Sometimes bigger IS better.

[frederick_muller]

Paul, I suggest you check the following:

 

First, check the rangefinder for dirt throughout the focussing range. That means from up close at the minimum focus distance to infinity. Ignore the scenery, but focus your eye on the glass of the rangefinder patch and make sure there is no dirt on the rangefinder patch at all focussing distances. There may be dirt that is not in the field of view at infinity or thirty feet that looks as big as a clot of muck at four feet.

 

Second, check the film guide rails and back for any signs of corrosion or dirt (yes, even on a brand new camera)

 

Third, I strongly suggest you take the machine over to the used Leica lens counter and deliberately mount a dozen samples to check the servicability of the mount.

 

Fourth, dry-fire the shutter through at least the equivalent of three rolls in a trial period and if possible put a couple of live rolls of film through the machine.

 

In short, Bessas are wonderfully designed machines, but the variability in quality control coming off the line is higher than with Leicas. You should assure yourself that you are not buying a sample from the wrong tail of the distribution.

 

Other than that, the Bessas are fine machines and you are making an excellent choice. No sacrilege involved here, althugh I would point out that it's not fair ot compare the R3A to an M6; the appropriate comparison is to an M7. Enjoy your choice and have fun shooting!

 

frederick

[frank granovski]

Paul, maybe this Bessa will fall out of favour once the Zeiss Ikon debuts.