thinking of selling the RZ...

[elliotnewman]

Its just that its sooo heavy and slow. I really love the camera to bits, have

owned it for a year and a half and for close-up work, its quality is amazing,

but I want a camera thats a bit more portable. I got a heavy manfrotto tripod

too, that I thought I could handle but a walk any longer than a mile and I am in

pain.

 

I like to travel quite a bit, overseas, but I have never taken the RZ. I used to

have a bronica 645 which I could handhold, it was a great little thing, I wish I

could handhold the RZ slower but the mirror slams such a shock wave through me.

I miss the candid shots I could get with the bronica, my RZ shots are portraits

of people looking pissed off becuase its taken 10 mins to set the tripod up and

get the camera ready!

 

I want to have the freedom of going out without a tripod, with just one lens and

the camera, and on other days,, when I am taking some still life shots I can

take the whole gear with me and a lighter tripod and take my time.

 

So I am thinking of exchanging for a mamiya 7. I have never used a rangefinder

before, I have read many reviews and have been through all the post here and the

general feedback seems to match my needs very well. The problem is, I cant have

both, its either one or the other.

 

in a perfect world the mamiya would be able to take macro shots, whats the

closest I can possibly get with the m7? I heard that the 150mm goes up to 3

feet, any closer and its out of focus. I guess I will have to accept the compromise.

 

I think I will be able to sell the RZ kit with my 180mm, 50mm lens and get a

mamiya 7 with 1 lens for about the same price. Adding an additional lens when I

have the money. The Mamiya 7 kits on ebay seem to fetch a bit more than the RZs...

 

Maybe also I should rent one for a day and see whether I like it, problem is I

have very little free cash, any ideas on the best price for a days rental in the uk?

[jay_chadney]

I bought a Sinar 4x5, then sold it because I wanted something faster to set up. I thought "there is no way I can take any pictures if someone else is hanging out with me as a non-photogrpher" (my wife). So I bought an RZ with 2 lenses, thinking "this will be awesome. I can set it up in no time - I'll be able to take it on hikes with the family". Well, I sold that for a Mamiya 7ii with 3 lenses. Heck, I don't even need the tripod anymore (although I should still use it). I have only run 2 rolls of film through, but I really like it.

I am not telling you to do it, just that I did. I discovered that I realy want to be more portable in my photography, sacrificing some in the way of negative size (4x5 down to 6x7).

[jlineen]

The mamiya 7 is not suitable for close-ups. The 150mm lens has a minimum focusing distance of 1.8m, so it can't even be used for head and shoulders portraits without cropping. A close-up adapter is available for the 80mm lens, but I have no experience with this so I can't really comment. If close-up photos form the majority of your work, you would be better sticking with the to an SLR style set-up anyway, so I would keep the RZ. You would be doing well to get a mamiya 7 +80mm for 700GBP.

Hope this helps

[elliotnewman]

right. 1.8m thats quite far away... thats something I will have to consider, its a trade off, both cameras do different things and I will just have to decide which suits me better...

 

At the moment I am still thinking the m7 is better for what I want todo. Close-up stuff is a kick in the teeth if the m7 really cant go that close, but I think I am willing to sacrafice that for the m7s portability... plus I will be ablt to take it travelling.

[tad doxsee]

I haven't used an RZ, but the Mamiya 7 is very hand holdable. The few people shots in my folder were all hand-held while on vacation, as was the photo of the chimneys above Verbier. If need be, I find that I can shoot hand held at 1/15 sec with the 80mm lens on the M7 with decent results.

[mark liddell]

I've been using my RB for 2 years now and have changed my RB's tripod for a gitzo 1325 and acratec ball head, this much has saved a large amount of weight and easier to carry around. Still, I finally broke down and bought a mamiya 7 too. As much as I love it, it just isn't practical to carry the RB (+ hefty tripod) up mountains and on aeroplanes all over the world.

 

With the mamiya 7 you do sacrifice quite a lot. RB/RZ has v close focusing, ability to use grad/pol filters, wlf and slr framing, interchangeable backs, no crazy finders for wide lenses. A true workhorse pro camera.

 

The mamiya 7 has v light weight, easily handholdable even at 1/30, built in meter, can get away with a light tripod. It is an absolutley brilliant travel/grab and go camera and I use it over 35mm for street photog now. Taking it around is as easy as any 35mm system. I still use my RB whenever I can unless carrying it to the location is going to kill me or I'm shooting street.

 

You say you can't have both which is a shame, the two compliment each other really well. What is wrong with your 645? Maybe there just isn't a 6x7 camera out there that can do everything you want it to.

 

You mention shooting portraits and close-up work. These are the two big weaknesses of the mamiya 7 (though these is a closeup kit of some sort) so definitly rent before buying! As for price of rental some places in London offer weekend rental for the same price as one day which makes it cheaper. The flash centre are reasonable from what I remember. Outside London I have no idea.

[mark liddell]

Forgot to add, I got my mamiya 7 + 80mm for 650 quid. Still not cheap though!

[paul_viapiano]

I find the RZ very "hand-holdable"...if you can get used to the weight, approx 5.8 pounds with the WLF.<p>

 

I had read here about the mirror slap inducing vibration even at shutter speeds upward of 1/125, but I don't find that true at all. For landscapes, of course, where you need small aperture settings, you must use the tripod. But for regular everyday usage, on trips, around the house, etc, hand-holding down to the 1/30 range works fine. The 110mm lens looks great even at f2.8 wide open, and portraits taken at that opening are just stellar, with the small depth of field adding to the effect.<p>

 

<a href=" here for an example</a>

[spanky]

Elliot, have a look at my gallery. Every single shot there except one (Single Man With his Cat) was shot hand held with my RZ. A lot of the outdoor shots was using slow films like Pan F+ and Efke R50 and R25. Sure some of the shots were exposed after talking to my subjects but most were not. Somehow I just seem to be able to use this camera hand held. For one, these cameras (or so I read) have a special braking system in it that slows down the mirror just before it completes it's swing allowing for hand holding at slightly slower speeds. My subway shots for example are shot at 1/60 using the 65mm lens with the camera cradled in my lap. I've also used the 110mm this slow with good results. BTW I often enlarge to 16x20.

When I'm out shooting I carry a Low Pro Nova 3 bag with the following:

Film, extra back, cable release, 180mm lens, 110mm lens (65mm lens on the body or the 110mm and the 65mm in the bag depending on my mood so three lenses total) instruction manuals, note book and pen, lens tissue, lens cleaner, hurricane blower, and a couple spare take up spools. My meter stays around my neck.

Just yesterday however I found myself sitting in a resturant after a day of shooting. I was seated in front of a large window facing the street. For fun I set the camera on the table and blew through a roll of APX100 in about five minutes of the people walking outside. I hope my shutter speed (1/15 and 1/10) was slow enough to achieve a good blur. So if you must set the camera on something any flat surface will do.

If you still want an easier camera to hand hold try the Pentax 67II. I used one for a day and found it fun to use.

Good luck, Marc

[doc_w]

I can really sympathize with the dilemma. I use an RB67, and with 3 lenses and two backs, it gets heavy very quickly. Sometimes, I go out with just the 127mm and one back, and it is not too bad. I can hand-hold it down to 1/125.

 

If I could get used to square format, the choices would be a lot simpler, but there just doesn't seem to be a modern, TTL, 6x7 camera that is portable and versatile. If the Mamiya 7 were capable of portraits, it would be almost perfect. The PERFECT 6x7 would have: portability, a range of lenses available, interchangeable backs, TTL, and look like a fat 35mm rangefinder.

 

BTW, how much of a human subject CAN you get with the 150mm from that far away?

[elliotnewman]

Hi Don thanks for the input.

 

thats the real problem, the portraits... and the close-up extention for the 150mm not only sounds very expensive but also not very good (a search revealed to me on this forum)

 

So plus and minus points (for me) I can think of so far:

 

RZ pros:

 

macro capable to extreme close-ups

TTL viewfinder dof is visible

full frame head shots

 

RZ cons:

 

very very heavy, so not going with me traveling

havent had much success handheld, mirror slap is heavy

very slow to operate - no TTL metering, only manual settings

 

M7 pros:

 

very light weight and portable

handholdable depending on lens, some claim success at 1/15

quiet exposure release

aperture priority

TTL metering

 

M7 cons:

 

1.8m min focal distance with 150mm

so no macro shots, at least nowhere near as close as the RZ

no TTL viewfinder so no dof preview

[christopher perez]

I own both Mamiya 7 and RZ.

 

The "7" is great for travel. I take mine nearly everywhere. When I want to get "funky", I take one of the old Rolleiflex TLRs.

 

Portraits with the "7" are fine, but remember that with the 80mm you can only get to 3 feet. Close focusing to 6 feet with the 150. The optics are brilliant on just about any of the lenses. But the 150 not really useful to me due to the gap from 80mm to 150mm and the lack of close focusing.

 

The RF on the "7" takes some getting used to. Particularly if you want to align the verticals and such things. The eye is sometimes easily fooled by the direct look through the RF system at the subject. It's too easy to misunderstand the frame lines and too easy to forget what they really refer to.

 

The "RZ" is so versatile. I have three lenses (65/110/180) and several backs. But due to weight, I don't usually carry it with me overseas. Around home, the "RZ" is more fun than a Hasselblad. I can actually work very quickly with the "RZ". But I understand that some folks out there might not have the patience to sit and wait for the camera to be set up.

 

Rent a "7" first. Then see if you can use it or not. While you're at it, rent a Rolleiflex TLR or 6000-series SLR.