elliotnewman Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Its not just my first wedding using an RZ, its the first wedding full stop! I got my RZ with 180 mm lens a couple of weeks ago, I have taken some shots with the camera and found that some of the portrait shots where slightly out of focus, I think this is becuase I was using the matt focusing screen which come with this camera, I have a hard time using it... but I also noticed that the depth of field was too shallow, and the back of the head weas starting to fall out of focus, basically what I want to make sure of during the wedding is that I am using an aperture that gives me about 1.5 meters in focus - can anybody tell me what this would be at this focal length? I also do not have any lighting equipment, and I have checked the weather is said to be cloudy/raining, I was hoping to use my iso 160 colour film, but if I want to use a smaller aperture to get a larger in focus area Im guessing I will have to use faster film than this? Whars the slowest shutter speed I can get away with for portraits? Would be great to hear your thoughts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil vaughan - yorkshire u Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 What other equipment do you have, that you are familiar with? Well use that instead, until you've had time to learn the RZ. If you need to ask these questions you shouldn't be thinking about this. For your own reputation and for the B&G, only do what you know how to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afs760bf Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Is the 180mm the only lens you have? What are you going to use for the group photos? I basically agree with Phil. You need some equipment you can use and know, with some degree of certainty what the results will be. You need, probably, at least f8 with the 180mm, and you won't have that for all the shots, I'm guessing. And you'll be hard pressed to provide enough light because you'll be too far away. You'll have to use at least 400ASA film, and maybe 800. Can you find an 80 or 90mm to play with? It would help a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 "What other equipment do you have, that you are familiar with? Well use that instead, until you've had time to learn the RZ. If you need to ask these questions you shouldn't be thinking about this. For your own reputation and for the B&G, only do what you know how to do." Pretty much what he said. Better to know what you are using well. What other kit do you have that you can use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Well Im not a photographer, its just a hobby of mine and I said I would like to take some shots of there wedding with my new equipment, I did tell them not to expect huge things from me. Im not being paid for it. I have a bronica etr and a 75 mm and a spot meter, and a nikon 8000 scanner. I used to shoot digital and 35mm, I have a degree in Photography, but as I said before this isnt a professional job. I said I would only take a couple of the bride and groom, portrait style as I only have a 180 mm lens... Im not covering the whole thing for a day, Im turning up for the food afterwards at 3.30pm, and the bride and groom are leaving at 5.30, Ive been invited as a guest as I know them both very well, so Ill only have a couple of hours to grab then and take a couple of portrait shots... its not a huge undertaking, I just want to take the best couple of shots that I can... So Im looking at f8 - f11 maybe f16 if light permits? what about shutter speed? can I go as low as 1/30 with my 180mm? Any ideas in terms of composition? sitting/standing? Maybe Ill pick up some 400iso and 800 maybe 1600 if itll be really dull... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoreu Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Remember depth of field is not only relevant to focal length and aperture, but also to how close you are to your subject. I'd agree with the other posters.. use what you are familiar with. Are you going to be the primary photographer? If so you have a lot of studying to do :) And I'm guessing you dont have much time since you already have the weather report for the big day. I'd stick to 400/800 speed film to ensure higher shutter speeds/smaller apertures. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoreu Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 oops sorry.. just saw you said you're just going as a guest.. in that case, experiment & have fun! Not sure about min. shutter speeds w/ MF equipment... the rule for 35mm of course is 1/focal length.. but on MF its wider so you could get away with much slower I'd assume.. depends on how steady your hands are.. I bet if you braced yourself well you could shoot at 1/30th... might be risky though... Have a mono/tripod you could use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Reuben Bakker - yes I did state I would be using a tripod, so I can take as long an exposure as I want, however when you have a subject that moves i.e. a human one then.... Im guessing as long as I have a tripod I can go as slow as 1/30 and it will be fine, I will be posing them both so Im sure they will not be moving a great deal. btw if I was hand holding the RZ at 1/30 with a 180mm I seriously doubt I would avoid camera shake, giving the mirror slap... even on my bronica I dont trust myself at anything lower than 1/125. Next time I post a question I will make sure its very clear the situation I am in and what I am trying to do.! I think What I will do on the day is go through a few rolls and experiment like you say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 I would use NPH or Portra NC400 and a tripod. At distances that will fill the frame with a 180 on a 67, you will have to stop down to 8 or 11 to get any amount of DOF. With a tripod (and no flash) , I wouldn't shoot slower than 1/60th second, 1/125th is even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bj_bignell Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Using the f/Calc program (http://www.tangentsoft.net), a subject distance of 4m and an aperture of 22 would get you ~3.5 - 4.6m as your DoF range. This will probably force you to use a tripod, or an ISO400 film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 You guys are going to give me a coronary ; - ) To check Depth of Field, press the DOF preview on the lens and you'll see what's in focus or not (see attached photo for location of preview lever). Remember, DOF is divided 1/3rd front, 2/3rds back. The RZ has bellows focusing. The focusing knobs have two parts to them: the outer knob rough focuses, and the slightly larger inner one is for fine focusing. It is extremely accurate. On the left side knob there is a little lever to set the focusing tension. You can also use it to lock the focusing completely. It helps assure precise focusing and helps avoid slight accidental movement. The 6X7 frame is huge, so unless you are going to make billboards for your friends, consider using ISO 400 film. With the 180 hanging off the camera, consider a minimum shutter speed of 1/125th even when on a tripod. These big cameras are prone to vibration, and need a sturdy tripod and proven head like the Arca-Swiss type. Try hanging your camera bag off the tripod to help steady it, and also look to using a cable release. Best of luck, that's camera is one of the all time greats ... but you have to use it correctly or it will bite you on the rump ; -)<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoreu Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 "yes I did state I would be using a tripod" ...sorry I dont see where. Anyway, if you're worried about subject movement it simply depends on how still they are. I've seen some beautiful portraits that were 6+ second exposures. Of course your subject has to be fully aware that they CANNOT move.. In the early days of photography you had to have a really long shutter speed just to get a proper exposure. So if they're posed, and aware that they need to sit still, 1/30th will definitely not be a problem with regard to subject movement. If ambient light levels are really really low and you use a flash that will do a great job of freezing the subject too.. but you probably know all of this. As far as hand holdability and mirror slap like I said I'm not really familiar with shooting medium format, or your camera in particular, so I'd just go by what Marc said... he seems to know just a wee bit about this photography stuff ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Marc Williams - thanks for the info, although I find the depth of field previe very useful, its always too dark and small to judge whether something is in the acceptable dof range. I am using the pro and not the pro II so I dont have the fine focusing knob unfortunately. Steve Levine - I do have some 400 NC so thats good news! I went here as the other link wasnt OSX compatable http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html very interesting... Ive not used one before. I guess for head and shoulder shots I have to stop down to quite a small aperture, but for full frame, which I guess would be about 10 or 12 feet awaya I could easily get away with f11 or even f8... Maybe I will post my results on this thread? that would be interesting for you all to see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted April 28, 2005 Author Share Posted April 28, 2005 Reuben Bakker - you are right I did not mention I would be using a tripod. My aplogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted April 28, 2005 Share Posted April 28, 2005 Elliot, If you're a guest, please try not to intimidate or get in the way of the paid photographer with your RZ. Most pros nowdays move fast and keep up with the actions. An RZ is more suited for serious studio/environmental portraiture with huge prints in mind. I used an RB67 for many years but rarely used it for weddings. A wedding is a dynamic, fast moving event, and not suited for an RB/RZ...IMHO!!! A wedding is not theater. You can't delay the flow of the day or stage poses. I don't have a clue how you're going to do candids or sidshooting with an RZ. You will just dominate what the pro is doing and make enemies. ***I would respectfully request that you let the paid photographer know that you want to get some experience with your RZ, and that your won't get in her or his way and if the pro says "No," accept that decision.*** There may also be photographic restriction on guest photos in the contract so I would seriously suggest that you let the pro know what you're doing, and don't clutter the space with a tripod. I don't mind casual guest photos, but I object loudly when I see a gues come in with a system and gets ready to photograph. I'm sorry to be negative, but if I saw you coming I'd corner you immediately to get an "understanding!" or go to those who pay me. Be a guest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted April 29, 2005 Author Share Posted April 29, 2005 Todd Frederick - chill out, there is no pro photographer going. I realise that I will not be able to move quickly with an RZ, thats why I said I will only take a few shots or them posed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted April 29, 2005 Share Posted April 29, 2005 Elliot...you seem really uptight. I was just trying to make some suggestions to avoid conflicts between the paid pro and you. Nowhere in your question do you mention that there is no pro or paid photographer at the event and I'm not a mind reader. Please be assured, my intent was not to dump on you but to just give you a few PR suggestions with regard to working with a pro as a guest...not a big deal. I think you need to "chill out" out a bit yourself and please understand that I'm on your side. Have fun. Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Relax boys. There are a whole host of ways to approach shooting a wedding. It's actually crossed my mind to lug that beast to a wedding myself. There's a hand holding bracket made for it that actually works pretty well. If you remove that huge prism finder and use an incident meter, it actually isn't all THAT big. What IS really big are the images it makes. Not that you'll be operating in the stealth mode, but with anticipation and forethought, you can even get some candids ... heck, think of the guys that used to use those huge press cameras in the past. I just scanned a RZ neg @ 16 bit/4800 dpi that was shot on Portra 800. The darn file was 800 meg !!! I could make a 32" print from this puppy with no interpolation. Something that none of my digital gear can do.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted April 30, 2005 Author Share Posted April 30, 2005 Todd, Im sorry if I sounded aggressive. Your comment did sound a little bit like an attack, but I obviously read it wrong, and yes you are right I do need to chill out a bit, I always put too much pressure on myself and its not healthy, Im actually seeing a doctor about it at the moment, as I stated before I should have explained my situation, and what I wanted to do, so my mistake, and I apologise. Marc - thanks for that image, its great! What scanner do you use to get 800mb images? I have an 8000 and get 500 ish mb out of it, which is fine for what I want to do... I have just got back from the wedding and I am absolutely exhausted. It wasnt what I expected - then sun was out, was very bright - about 4.30pm, I used portra 400 nc, so I was able to stop down to f11, and still use 250th, the tripod I ordered did not come so I was using my flimsy one, so I hope they will be ok, seeing as I was using 250th Im sure it will be ok in terms of shake - I just hope that I got the focusing right, Im using the matt screen which has no diagonal split, and I find it really hard to use... I had no time to set up, I arrived (at the time I was invited), and they said they wanted me to take some shots of the cake cutting, before I knew it there was a croud of people surrounding the cake and waiting on me! it was a good job I loaded the camera before I came. I had to ask a friend to meter for me, as I was still fumbling around with setting up my tripod, I asked him to spot meter the bride and the groom, I think the bride read f11 and the groom read f8 - I think, but I opted to go for f11. I didnt even have time to screw in my shutter release cable! So, I would say I had about 2-3 minutes to get the camera out of my bag, set up on my tripod, and focused, ready to shoot. At which point I was drowning in my own sweat. I took a whole roll of the cake cutting using 120, Im now just hoping they will come out well. I did take some more shots of everybody but sinse I only have a 180mm at the moment I dont think these will come out very well... I did notice that when I wound the film on it felt a bit clucky, and not as smooth as usual, a bit like a bicycle chain slipping... this didnt happen on the cake shots but Im a liitle worried my RZs cogs are slipping? I will get the negs developed and post the results... Watch this space... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Hi Elliot. The scanner is a Minolta Dimage Scan Multi PRO. 4800 dpi, 4.2 D-Max. A full 6X7, 16 bit file is almost 800 meg. I know this is the wedding forum, but man that RZ is one heck of a camera. Here's a scan I did today. My wife wants a giant print made of it for a room she is redecorating. The final scan file is 782 meg after cropping a bit off the sides and bottom. The image size without up scaling it is 44" X 35" !!!! at 100% there is no grain, and not a sign of digital artifacts. The darn file is too big for a CD ; -)<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Elliot, I too put undo pressure on myself. I'm glad you had a good experience. I had an RB and loved it, but not for weddings. That's just me. I'm surprised the couple did not ask you to take some portraits. The RZ is a great portrait camera. Much success in the future. Marc, That orchid is awesome. Thanks for the info on the scanner. I have a flatbed film scanner which really isn't very good now that I see what I can get with a digital camera. I might use more film if I had a really good scanner since I'm allergic to darkrooms. (^O^) Blessings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted April 30, 2005 Share Posted April 30, 2005 Todd, flatbeds don't cut it for 35mm, but for MF they're quite good now for not a lot of money. But not as good as this MF Minolta dediated film scanner. But how many 44 X35 prints do you need for wedding work ; -) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliotnewman Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo? topic_id=1481&msg_id=00C4kZ&photo_id=3334459&photo_sel_index=0 here it is, one of the resulting images of the cake cutting! Let me know what you all think... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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