Photoshop Elements??

[ma2hew]

I generally see most people refer to Photoshop when they are taking

about manipulating their photos. Being an amature I don't see the

need in the professional version of Photoshop. Is Photoshop

Elements acceptable for most situations? Are there other programs

that would work as well?

[andrew_rodney1]

Well, I've been using Photoshop for 15 years (since 1.0.7). That being said, I have Elements

3 (for doing tech support) and it's a darn nice program and FAST. So sure, if you don't

need the bells & whistles in Photoshop, you'll be happy with Elements 3.

[steve_dunn2]

<p>Yes, Photoshop Elements will satisfy the needs of many amateurs. Not having used any of its competitors, I can't help you out with the second question ... sorry.</p>

[jimstrutz]

PaintShop Pro 9. Priced & featured about the same as Elements 3, but also has things like Curves that Elements is missing.

[jimstrutz]

I should add that Elements 3 has things like 16 bit file processing that PaintShop Pro does not.

 

Picture Windows Pro is also nice.

[johnclinch]

I'll second picure window pro

 

http://www.dl-c.com/Temp/

 

try it free for a month

[paul -]

Speaking of "try it free for a month", you can download a 30 day Photoshop Elements 3.0 tryout<a href="http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=40&platform=Windows"> here</a>.<P>I moved up to CS before Elements 3.0 came out, so I don't have first-hand experience. Elements 2.0 was more than powerful enough most of the time though, and some of the higher-end Photoshop features such as Curves could be unlocked/added via <a href="http://www.hiddenelements.com/">"The Hidden Power of Photoshop Elements"</a> series by Richard Lynch. He also has a version for 3.0.

[ma2hew]

What is the "curves" feature about? Thanks by the way to everyone replying. I find it hard to commit to buying something like this without really knowing what I'm getting.

[sc21]

Start with Elements. It took me over a year before I figured everything out (or at least all I needed to) before moving on to CS. That's the great thing - everything you learn can be used in CS if and when you decide to go that route. There's also a great deal of support for Photoshop in free tutorials and forums (such as here and at the Adobe website).

 

As for which one you need, I was torn between Elements 3 and CS (which was going for $299 for those with copies of Elements, and which may still be on since the new CS hasn't come out just yet). I read everything I could on it (check out photoshopelementsuser.com for a comparison), and ultimately pre-ordered Elements 3 because it now had the things I'd been wanting in CS - shadow/highlight, the healing brush, and the RAW converter.

 

The thing is, I tried the one-month free trial of CS as waiting for it, and by the time Elements 3 got here, I was hooked on CS. It was that easy to go from Elements 2 to CS. In fact, the first day I was making up my own keyboard shortcuts.

 

If you find you do a lot of work on your photos, like an hour a day on them, then moving up to CS later on would be good for the time-savers like actions. The other way that CS beats Elements 3 is the tonal range of the Shadow/Highlight tool can be adjusted, and you can save your own defaults for it. This tool I use much more than Curves, which is highly touted, but I find difficult to use since just the smallest adjustment changes your picture in a major way.

 

The Richard Lynch book mentioned is well-recommended, even by those who don't use it for the extra tools. His site also has a good forum for any questions.

 

Another good book for beginning to use either program is Katrin Eismann's Photoshop Restoration and Retouching - you can read a chapter on the link below.

 

http://www.photoshopelementsuser.com/index.php

 

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=d5af15436b34eb48046b3ec96725d524&f=9

 

http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@80.GS6RcHLS9xd.5732505@.eeb4f8b

 

http://www.digitalretouch.org/

 

By the way, Elements often comes free with a scanner or digital camera, if you need an excuse to buy one.

[Greg M]

Elements 3.0 is an excellent program, but still falls short for me compared to Photoshop CS due specifically to one feature...Layer Masks. Since figuring it out, I have used Layer Masks extensively and today would not use a program that didn't offer it.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Elements is a good program. it has alot of the same tools as full bore photoshop; and is way more rich than the ancient pro versions many of us started with. If you want to work for another company with digital printing and photography; Photoshop has been the main program used for along time. Some of us have used Photoshop for along time. Because it has a strong Mac usage; the tools have not been scrambled just to be scrambled; like a PC ponly program like Autocad. Here I started with some Leaf software; then used Photostyler in 1991; because Photoshop wasnt on the PC yet; and all our computer horsepower was with PC'S. About Photoshop 2.5; it was also now on the PC; and we ran Photoshop and Photostyler. Adobe then later bought their competiton in the PC area; ie Photosyler; and let it rot; finally killing off the competion and support. The LT versions of Photoshop were later introduced; to help fend off lower cost photo programs. One of my Photoshop licenses is from actually old Photosyler. There are many many photoprorams around now. Elements has a large user base; thus you can get help from users here probably better than some of the others. Here I have Photoshop 3,4,5.5,7, CS; LT3,4,5; Elements 2.0 and 3; and photosyler; GIMP; a goofy microsoft photodraw?; and afew others.. Haveing many programs helps with weird obscure file variants; and helping friends out too. I think the Elements 2.0 set me back 48 bucks from sams club serveral years ago. the LT versions were free bundles with scanners. The lower cost non Photoshop programs have really grown in power too. GIMP is free

[kelly_flanigan1]

This one place I worked about 1990 had a 486DX-50 beta unit; that cost us 10 grand. We used it for magnetic recording and optical calc's. This unit had a 50Mhz bus; abit radical; abit sometimes problematic with the wrong ISA cards; this was a EISA board.. This unit was actually called a "P4" back then. One had the cache memory on the motherboard then; usually 256k. This was a very fast chip; only a handfull had the 386 screamers if a power user; most folks had 286's or 8088 still. The board on the 486 10 grand computer came with something like 4 megs; we added more ram several times; and hit 64 megs after a ton of dough. We put Photostyler on this box; and later Photoshop 2.5; when Adobe made a variant for the PC. The graphic dept was extremely ticked that our Engineering "super" computer had more ram and CPU than their MAC's; and grew more ticked when Photoshop came available on the PC. To add to the ticked factor; us Engineers used our prototype high rpm Disk Drives on the 486DX-50; for better read/write speed with images.

[sc21]

You asked about Curves. There's a good introduction at this site.

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/command_primer.shtml

 

Check out the Understanding Series as well - much of it is covered more in-depth than you'll need, but there's some good primers there.

[ma2hew]

I went out and got Elements today. And the first thing I have been finding is that the manual isn't as comprehensive as I thought. I noticed some people said that it takes a while to learn, and I expected that. However aften a few hours of playing I have become frustrated. The photo in questions I have attached. I had it posted for critique before and one of the comments was that you could see the clothing lines. I can't seem to get them to go away without being obvious that I altered the picture. Can one of you kind people set me in the right direction. I haven't checked out the links that were posted yet so maybe I am jumping the gun...

[sc21]

Yeah, they skipped on the manual (which I remembered just today). Elements 2 came with one, as did CS, but with 3 they mostly put it on the CD, in the Help and tutorial sections.

 

Not sure where you're running into trouble - a larger view of the section you're working on - before and after - would help. That said, it's a nice picture.

 

If you haven't used digital editing software before, the two basic tools for taking out distracting lines are the Clone Stamp (Control + S for Windows, or the little stamp picture on the left of the screen in Elements 3) or the Healing Brush (Control + J or the band-aid picture).

 

The Clone Stamp is great for copying over distracting sections, like a soda can on a lawn. You adjust the size of the brush (use a soft-edged one, and you can adjust the size with Control + or -, as well as the slider), hold down Alt, click on where you want to copy from, let go of Alt, and then run the brush over the soda can. (You can also adjust the opacity, like to 50%, for more gradual effects.)

 

The Healing Brush does the same thing, but it tries to match the tone and texture of the surrounding area. You want a hard-edged brush, a little larger than the area you're covering, and the rest is the same. It works best on areas of texture like skin, or grainy shots, like you're working with. Just make small brush strokes, one at a time, and if you don't like it, Control + Z or the History Palette to back up.

 

It takes some practice to get good at using them. The Healing Brush works best, but not if there's a line of sharp contrast. In your picture, with the edge of the body and the darker background, it will create a blur, while a small-sized Clone Stamp won't. But if you use a lot of Clone Stamp in one place, especially on skin texture, it will start to look blurry.

 

Sometimes the way to work around it is to clean up with the Clone Stamp and then go over it with the Healing Brush to add the texture back on. The Katrin Eismann book I listed will tell you more.

 

And about books, it sounds like you need suggestions for the best ones to learn Elements with. If you run a search on that here ("Elements books") you'll find a few good lists.

[sc21]

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-one-category?topic_id=1701&category=Books

[sc21]

Video tutorials for Elements 3 here, including one on using the Healing Brush.

 

http://www.photoshopsupport.com/elements/tutorials.html

[ma2hew]

Steve,

 

You're a great source of info. I've been surfing the Adobe website and have found some interesting stuff although not yet specific to what I'm interested in right now. I'm going to give it another go today with the tips you gave me. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

A response to my request for critique on this picture was that there was some "underware lines" which there are if you look close at the bigger size. I don't know that you would see it on the thumbnail version. I did get rid of it by playing with on of the softening filters.

 

The other problem is that I live in the boonies and unfortunatly high speed isn't an option so the video's aren't really a feasable option at home. Maybe at work on lunch though.

[sc21]

Probably the best thing you could do right now is get a good, solid book. Now that I'm reading them, I'm amazed at the keyboard shortcuts and easier ways of navigation that I could've used from the start.

 

Try to get to a mall where there's a selection (Classroom in a Book is often recommended) and compare them in how they cover such topics as the Clone Brush and Levels and so on. Once you find one that speaks to you, take it a chapter a day, working out each method as you read and jotting down notes for later. It's the best way I've found to learn.

 

Much better than what I did at first, which was trying to learn it by just whatever came up, whether magazine articles or tutorials on the net. First I got in way over my head with professional workflow and then got distracted by clever tricks, and so I never got the firm foundation I needed. Just stacks of articles and feeling overwhelmed.

 

And I hear ya on the boonies. 28kps here, so I haven't checked out many videos, either. Though you could still learn that way through those books that come with CDs.

[paul -]

The video tutorials by <a href="http://www.totaltraining.com/prod/adobe/digitalphoto_pselemnts3.asp?mscsid=">Total Training</a> (an Adobe Certified Training Provider or some such thing) are worth looking into. It's basicly like someone personally walking you through the features one by one. I haven't used the Elements version, but was very pleased with, and learned a lot from, the CS version.

[dickhilker]

I've been using Elements 2 semi-professionally for years, recently downloaded a free month's trial of CS and within a couple of weeks decided that Elements does everything I need without the long, steep learning curve of CS. A lot has to do with the kind of work you plan to do: for most pictorial work not requiring a great degree of manipulation, Elements does a fine job. For professional work involving graphic arts and publication, I'm sure CS is worth the extra cost and time.

[ma2hew]

So here's my next question. I open a new picture and edit it. I save a new copy different from the original. Now I've got an edited version and an untouched version. That's all fine. When I get into doing more work on the edited version and try and save the changes I've made, it makes another edited copy, version two. I am finding this annoying. Is there any way to save the changes easily?