masatoshi_yamamoto Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 This Babelfish tranlation of a Der Spiegel article says it all: "Leica overslept and suffers the trend to the digital photography from losses. Besides the weak dollar impairs the business abroad, because the cameras become more expensive larva in Germany thereby." Did I miss the special limited edition larva skin commemorative model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus_klein Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Those larvae were hatched by taking the "made" from "made in Germany" for German vocabulary (translating "maggot"). I'm afraid this wasn't Leica innovation but Babelfish's. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugon Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 maggots? read an article a lil while ago how hospitals use maggots on patients who sustained massive injuries where skin-tissue would not grow back, anyway, had images and all but i guess they weren't made w/ leica's. yeah i know, slightly OT, but interesting article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_barbano Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Leica's going bankrupt because people aren't buying NEW cameras and lenses. If you want Leica to stay in business, start buying NEW stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricM Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 "...start buying NEW stuff." if it was better than their older, used, stuff, then yeah. but it isn't, so their sunk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morthcam Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I suppose buying replacement larva skin from CameraLarva.com doesn't help Leica either.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw_finney Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I had a machine translation of 'grub screw' turn it into 'maggot sex'. There was a lava covered model but the dust got into the eyepiece. Fantastic grip though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunom Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Don't you think it should be 'Leica may possibly become bankrupt' or has there been some announcement stating they are to be bankrupted? Regards Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank granovski Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I doubt that Leica will be going bankrupt. There's always a good market for high-end rangefinders. If Leica goes back to its roots and builds the best rangefinger (an updated M3), then all will be well. Is this wishful thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bashir_lunat Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 "If Leica goes back to its roots and builds the best rangefinger (an updated M3), then all will be well. Is this wishful thinking?" I suppose Leica should target everybody as potential customers.Just look at other industries where they will cater for the most by offering products of different value,thats where the business is.eg Nikon offers F6,D2X(nearly),but also F60 and cheap P&S which are main earners not the F6 and D2X.How many units of F6 and D2X will be sold as opposed to D70 and F60 etc? How many Canon 1Ds2 against D300 and G6 etc? Leica needs to call board meeting URGENTLY to draw some future plans.With a view to cater for low end markets.No good having those old fashioned and not forward looking people on the company's management board.They are unable to think modern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorge Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 <a href="http://www.leica-camera.com/unternehmen/presse/data/04272/index_e.html">The statement from Leica</a>. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_fromm1 Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Frank, not to be unpleasant or insulting, but I fear you're dreaming. The market for new film cameras is shrinking, the $US is falling against the Euro, and Leica is not a particularly efficient producer. On that last point, I'd swear that within the last couple of years someone posted here to the effect that the fact that 90% of new Leica lenses were scrapped because they failed final QC proved Leica's dedication to the highest standards. To me it proved that Leica was unwilling or unable to fix processes that were badly out of control. Cheers, Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank granovski Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Dan, I'm both a dreamer and a rangefinder fan. That's because my mother was from pre-war artsy Berlin and owned a Leica and I'm now counting the years to 60. Okay, maybe that's not it. I just love taking pics with rangefinders. ;*) Hopefully, Leica will pull through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie y. Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 In order for Leica to get out of the red, they need to focus on more mainstream products. For example, rebadging more of Panasonic's digital cameras (e.g. their FX line is very good). This reminds me of how many car companies started building SUV's because they not only sold well, but also had a high profit margin. Basically every car manufacturer now has an SUV (even Porsche!) Now, like Porsche enthusiasts, the company might be accused of 'selling out', but the reality is that Porsche sales have increased tremendously since releasing their SUV and has basically saved them from financial troubles. Their SUV was also co-engineered with Volkswagen. Now this doesn't mean Leica should price their cameras into the stratosphere (Digilux, DLux anyone???) But just make minor changes (body design, different image algorithims) and price it *slightly* higher than the Panasonic version. This will give them sales volume, with little R&D costs since it's basically a rebadged Panasonic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunom Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Bashir Leica doesn't need to operate as Nikon and Canon do - it is not in the same [mass production] business. I'm sure it would be highly delighted if it were to sell 20,000 to 30,000 cameras in a year, whereas Canon are proposing to make 100,000 a month of the new D350! Regards Bruno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bashir_lunat Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Dear Bruno, please dont get me wrong,I think we are all concerned about Leica as a brand, but the reality is that you and I as potential customers arent quieing up for it.The company must make profit and invest in R&D for future products in line with time--and time is extremely important. Regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tekkie Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I have to believe that the main holder of Leica shares (Hermes) would have some plans after making such a heavy investment. These people are in the high price, high quality business and know how to keep a quality product afloat, even if it does have to change with the times. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulstenquist Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Leica won't make a comeback by rebadging Panasonic P&S digitals. They need a market leader DSLR or digital rangefinder that sells for $3000 or so and offers new technology and excellent performance. They should have started down this path five years ago. If they don't have something in the pipeline right now, it's too late. The shrinking film market is easily accommodated with used Leicas. There is no salvation in cellulose. Paul Stenquist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photojerry Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Leica is going bankrupt because they missed the boat. The rangefinder M6 and its predicessors ARE GREAT cameras. They were the inital choice or alternative choice toa SLR. There greatness has always been the glass. The M series was a means for the use of teh glass. The advent of the Autofocus changed the market for all photography. The volume buyers the photojournalist moved rom the M and R series to the autofocus Nikon and CAnon. They never returned to LEica. They went for the ease of the autofocus and the heck with the super quality glass. Leica never followed the market. They tried with the development of the R cameras but never hit the mark with the auto focus. IF Leica wants to succeed they should get in bed with Canon or Nikon and make a premium glass for there cameras.I think it would sell like hot cakes. If people are willing to purchase the L canon lenses they would purhcase a Canon mounted LEica Lens even at 2 or 3 times the cost. everybody knows the lens glass is superior to the Japanese glass. Contrast and boke. Also the feel of the Leica lens is superior to the CAnon lenses. People will pay for the difference. Even if it is only 5 or 10% of the Canon market it would save Leica. LEica could contue the development of the M series and jettison the SLR. I have never read a resounding indorsment of the SLR Leica. The new R9 Digital is a JOKE. What market are they trying to hit. Non Autofocus Film and Digital. That must be a huge market!! Jerald Rosenfeld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Those that put price above all else,are driving today's retail economy.A company that builds a high end, precision built machine cannot compete with the crap builders.And the public doesnt care. Add the slow down in film camera sales, created by digital.And something has to give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_.1 Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Raising prices all the time, Zeiss, Epson, etc. Mint used items floating around at a fraction of new price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie y. Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Well how do you expect Leica to develop this wonderful new DSLR? They can't even put together a digital back, let alone a complete ground-up DSLR. Where do you expect them to get money for that development? I'm not saying that digital P&S cameras are what saves Leica, but they need a cash cow, and high volume digital P&S cameras is probably their best bet right now. What else is there? How many people actually buy their NEW Leica MP's, M7's, Digilux2, R9, CM's ??? It's a drop in the bucket really. As mentioned before, Leica doesn't really have efficient manufacturing. Also Hermes ownership won't save Leica with their marketing of high-end products. Selling a $3000 bag and $500 scarf (which costs them about $50 to make) isn't the same as technology products. You have to sell enough volume to recoup your R&D, manufacturing costs + have more for future projects. It's pretty obvious Leica has little to no R&D budget, especially for giant projects like a DSLR and Dig-M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearhead Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Hermes lost most of their investment in Leica already, why would they put in more? Music and Portraits Blog: Life in Portugal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_chow Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 The product lineup and the sales are only part of the story. Without going through the books, there is no way to tell why Leica is sinking. In today's business world, a good accountant is just as important as a good product designer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herve_laurent Posted February 23, 2005 Share Posted February 23, 2005 THANK YOU, CHRIS. I read the postings with both amusement and distate. everybody seems to have a solid theory about why leica is in trouble and the solution for a recovery. Although some conditions explain " the landscape " shrinking film market for a pricey product, exchange rate $vs euros , higher competition in the rangefinder market, nobody in this forum ( and I mean NOBODY) has the insight look on the books to be even able to tell where leica is experiencing most of their lossed. so please , try to keep that in mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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