Italy?

[kurt_remington]

Okay, Let me start off by thanking everyone that has giving me advice so far. It

has been pondered on and appreciated a lot. With that said I'm in need of

raking your brains again.? I'm going to be taking a trip with my class to Italy. I

want to take my 4x5 (sinar). But my teacher doesn't think it would be a wise

decision. What I need is 2 things. (!st) Suggestions can I make it work, and if

so How? (2nd) Is it worth lugging it around, or would it be more praticable to

just take 35mm. Please give me a little of both sides of the fence that way I

can Compare and Contrast. People that have been in my shoes, I would like

to know your experiences as well. Thank you for your ideas/suggestions!!!!

[luciano_capitanio1]

Kurt,

where in Italy ? Countryside, as Tuscany, is perfect for LF photography. In the touristic cities as Florence, Rome, Venice you can have problems with permission, local "strange" rules about photography with tripod (in Rome, for instance), ect...and so I think it's better a more easy appoach: little or medium format.

[colin carron]

Kurt, I assume your teacher is doubtful not because there won't be lots of things to point your Sinar at but because it will be impractical in a group. Despite being all for LF and having taken my 4x5 to Italy a couple of times now I would agree with your teacher. Take your 35mm and stick with your group.

[paulh]

Split the difference and take a MF camera :-)

 

As someone else said, it depends on where you're going. If you will be city based, then a MF or 35mm camera would be best.

 

If you're out in smaller villages, away from the big towns and cities, and are on your own or with patient people then the LF may make sense.

[carsten_benni]

The question is not really about Italy but about travel with large format cameras. Me, for

example, I do not like 35mm, I don't know what to do with these negatives... So if I decide

to take a camera with me I bring my Hasselblad or I rent a LF (if it is possible). I

understand the problem to be in a group visiting and you with your LF stopping to set up

all your stuff... Maybe is better you will do some night shooting, while your friends will

have fun in clubs, bars and hotel rooms...

[edward_kimball]

For a class trip DO NOT take large format. I would suggest medium format as well. Something like a TLR or a Fuji rangefinder would be perfect. If you ever go back without being chained to a large group then you should definately bring large format and ALOT of film.

[kai_griffin]

I have to agree with your teacher: whether it's Italy, Mongolia or Burkina Fasso, if you're with a group, you just won't have time to set up your LF camera with the time and care it takes while at the same time having to keep up with the rest of your comrades. Treat this trip as a "reconnaiscence mission", take lots of MF or 35mm shots, and come back by yourself some day in the future with your LF camera and no peer group pressure (either vocal or implied) to keep moving. Especially if you were thinking of taking your Sinar as your only camera on the trip, I think you would really kick yourself, because you're likely to miss the thousand and one fleeting opportunities that you're likely to encounter!

 

Have a great trip, by the way!

 

Kai

(in Italy)

[robin_coutts]

Kurt,

I have been a group leader on tours for many years and by choice am a LF photographer. The problem with group travel is, as others have said, the difficulty of being able to stand still and make pictures. Also the kind of images you will most likely see are the new, the novel, the (to you mysterious) or the odd. By nature they are best suited to quicker working cameras. MF or 35mm. Also IMO you are unlikely to be able to see with the depth and perception you are able to at home, because of the visual overload.

 

best wishes to you on your trip, Italy is a real experience and the food and wine are so good as well.

[tony_galt]

I have alot of experience in Italy, although I've never tried to use large format there. (I do use it here.) First of all, unless you are only going to be in the largest cities you will have trouble finding 4x5 film, so you'll have to take your supply with you and then worry about airport security problems, often addressed on this forum. I don't know about you, but I often spend 20 minutes setting up an architectural or a landscape shot, so the comments about trying to work in a group are relevant. Of course, you also will have to schlep your gear around alongside your other baggage and that will be a problem. If you feel strongly about using large format, maybe borrowing or renting Graphic to use handheld would be a solution. You'd attract alot of attention. I'd only consider taking my field camera if I knew I was going to spend a leisurely time in a couple of places where I could hike around (maybe a little difficult with a Sinar). I have done that a number of times for professional reasons (I am a cultural anthropologist who does fieldwork in southern Italian settings), but the largest camera I've ever had with me is a Rollei TLR.

[ben conover]

Hi, try this link to an Italian Large Format guy who knows Italy well.

 

 

http://www.westcorkprints.com

[alokppatel]

Kurt,

I have been to Italy twice with classes. First in High School, and then again in Law School, both experiences were fantastic, and I am very jealous that you will be going. The first time I went, during high school, I had a 35mm camera, and the second time around, I had a 35mm and a MF camera. I think carrying around any amount of weight is a burden traveling through Italy. To that extent, I pose to you these questions to consider. How much time do you want to spend with your classmates? Part of the fun is sharing the experience with the people you are there with, and not many will wait around the ten to fifteen minutes everytime you want to take a picture. There is so much to see and experience that people are generally tolerant enough for you to set up a tripod and shoot every once in a while, but not every shot. This is where a MF as suggested above, is a good compromise. However, I would suggest that you take a 35mm camera, a nice and fast wide angle lens, a standard for street shooting, and a nice telephoto, and enjoy yourself and experience all the many experiences. You can also get by with a tiny travel tripod, otherwise you have to lug a decent tripod around. So think about how yo want to experience Italy. Also, where will you be staying, as often times your stuff is not very secure sitting in your hotel room, think about these things, and if you don't think you will have fun in Italy without your LF camera, (this is impossible) then take it. You will definately not have a shortage of picture ops in the Italian coutryside. Oh, it is true that you cannot use a tripod near the tourist spots in Rome. I say buy a postcard, and save your film for things like taking a trip out to Hadrian's Villa, a daytrip from Rome where you can use your tripod all you want, and where you will have more picture opportunities that you will have film for, another consideration on choosing your format. I am sure I have written more than necassary, that is what happens when you try to avoid work at work. Best on your travels, and post some of whatever you take when you get back.

Alok

[andy_shand1]

i was thinking of schlepping a 6x17 / sinar f2 setup to rome in the next couple of months and maybe do some panoramic architectural of the forum/coliseum ect from public rights of way .....

 

so whats the deal with tripods in rome?? i dint get much flak last time with a small tripod on a medium format.

 

one thing to look out for is when your head is on the groundglass the gysie kids will be away with your kit!!!! be very carefull!

[kai_griffin]

I've never had a problem with tripods in the past 4 years I've lived in Rome; maybe there's a rule about them (maybe not); maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe the Carrabinieri have better things to do than police tripod-users!

[andy_shand1]

well did a bit of googling.. seems like the restrictions are applied inside buildings which is no supprise but the public areas on streets should be fine.....unless somebody knows otherwise?

[andy_shand1]

ps...if i had just one year to live i would probably spend it doing large formats of italian architecture !! ..a bit of women and wine in the evenings of course!

[alokppatel]

Andy and anyone else concerned about the tripods,

It is true that you cannot use tripods inside many of the more famous locations, and even outside at many locations. However, these outdoor locations are generally limited to places such as the Trevi fountain, or the Pantheon. However, if you go to a wide open area, such as the forum, or the coluseum, where you would in essence be on public roads, you are likely to be able to set up and get your shot. Even at the Pantheon, you would most likely be able to set up in the Piazza; however, there are sometimes problems there. I was stopped once, and I got a shot the other time. Frankly, everywhere you go it is worth a shot setting up your tripod. If you get a shot in at the Trevi fountain consider yourself a candidate for the secret service 007; on the other hand at the Coluseum you should have no problem. At the forum you have so many options to shoot from. The street will be realtively easy to set up on and shoot from. Once you get down into the forum, you should still be okay. I think I set up my tripod ten times down there and was only admonished once. And I think he gave me enough time to get off a shot anyway. Italy is the place to play it cool. If you look like you belong, people tend to give you slack. I have got to say that the beaten path offers many great opportunities for LF shooting. However, remember the history of Rome. There are ruined palaces of mad emporors, great retreats within a short trip, ruined temples, and quite a few piazzas and alleys that will blow you away. So if you are going there to take pictures specifically, by all means don't let a few restrictions on setting up your tripod stop you, just be quick when you see the toursit patrol out and about. I studied in Rome for a month, I can still picture walking through those streets in my head.

Still Jealous,

Alok

p.s. there are gardens and amphitheaters littered about Italy, especially some in Sicily, these places are just begging for a LF camera to come and capture them. Also Pompeii has some beautiful opportunities for the LF that I think would really provide the opportunity to capture some unique images. I guess when it comes to Italy I just can't stop, huh?

[alokppatel]

as if that wasn't enough,

in and around churches they are generally not very tolerant of tripods, although again you at least have a better chance going unnoticed outside than inside.

[kai_griffin]

Wow, Alok, you must have the *worst* luck! I've shot around Rome with tripod countless times, all over the place and no one has raised so much as an eyebrow at me. It's not like I blend in that well, either, with reddish blonde hair, pale complexion, daggy clothes that Italians my age wouldn't be caught dead in, etc! To be honest, the idea that someone might try to stop me has never even crossed my mind... perhaps that is part of the secret? Beats me; anyway, I've probably jinxed myself now and will be fed to the lions (tripod and all!) next time I go into town... :-)

[alokppatel]

Well Kai,

I must have the worst luck, becaause people have told me and often mistook me for italian due to my black hair, olive complexion and rather fine duds! Just kidding, about the duds part that is, because i doubt any Italian my age would be caught dead in Flannel. But seriously though, like i said I have been stopped, mostly in the totally touristy locations, but I would not say there is some kind of undergroud tripod police out there. Heck they probably did me a favor and made me save my film for some of those other great, and more deserving? shots. To get back to the original post, I would like to say that beyond these considerations the greatest consideration is to figure out the experience you are after, expecially traveling with a class, or in a group... Wait a minute, Kai, are you telling me you were able to shoot in the churches, because if so next time I'm coming with you. I had no problem in France, but it seemed like my tripod was sending off all sorts of Church bells, (sorry) every time i tried to set it up. Even outside some of them. Although, we were traveling in groups, at least five or more, and we were not always cooly inconspicuous. Man, I can't seem to keep my posts to any sort of reasonable length.

Alok

[kai_griffin]

Hi Alok -

No, you're right - I've not even tried setting up a tripod inside a church; and they often do have signs (using symbols) forbidding them as you enter. Also there are places where any kind of photography is totally forbidden (catacombs, for example). But outdoors in & around monuments it hasn't been a problem so far (touch wood!). I fully expect to be stopped any day now that I've had this conversation with you - it's just a matter of fate!

 

BTW, for photography of ancient Roman ruins away from the maddening crowds, nothing can top an unhurried day spent at Ostia Antica (the original port suburb of Rome). Its a large area - reminiscent of Pompeii (though not in quite as good condition), but without the crowds. Well worth a full day of exploring (take a picnic lunch) if you have the time.

 

Cheers, Kai

[alokppatel]

Kai,

Nice stuff on your website, seems like you have been able to really travel. Lucky You. And yes now that you have been in contact with me, there is a hex on your tripod.

Alok

[kai_griffin]

Thanks, Alok!<br>I'll let you know when my tripod's been impounded :-) Actually, we've just moved up north (near Venice), where it won't be as big a problem, probably. I'll see what happens in Venice next time I go....<br>

Cheers,<br>

Kai

[felix_ackermann]

"... so whats the deal with tripods in rome?? ..."

 

you will usually have problems if you want to take photographs inside churches.

 

Sometimes you can bribe a "custode" (once a custode illuminated an altar for me with 4 halogen lamps for 10'000 lire...) or you can get into confidance with the "parrocho"; but often you need special permissions. To get these can be very hard and stressful. I photographed a lot in Roman churches, but I think it is nearly impossible to get the permissions without good italian, and without living in Rome permanantly... It can take weeks and a lot of diplomacy and patience...

For the majority of Roman churches the "Vicariato di Roma" in the Lateran Palace issues these permissions; but when a church depends on the Vatican things are much more complicated.

 

But sometimes you can also "steal" your pictures, as I have succeded several times: You mesure the light and choose the lens; you set up your equipment in the exterior; you rush in and shoot...

[andy_shand1]

well my mind has been put to rest....you see the romans are a bunch of pussies in comparison to my home town which happens to be hong kong.

 

this is the land where you can be taking a tripod shot from the public street and some gaurd will stop you because the land under your feet isnt acctually the street as such but some land that looks like street but is acctually private property.

 

ironically the building that might be in the view that your trying to take that the powers that be wish you wouldnt take is probably the sadest piece of architecture that you would ever see anywhere outside of asia.

 

so rome it is then and what an amazing city amongst many that it is in that part of the world...i only wish i lived there full time.

[andy_shand1]

also its scary that the adds at the bottom of this page are for tuscany....talk about targetting the audience!!!