Leica Summicron 35mm or 50mm (R) on Canon 20D

[terry_rory]

I have occasionally seen threads that talk about using Leica R

lenses on a Canon SLR via an adaptor.

 

Please can anyone who does this comment on how much TTL metering

(and any other functionality) remains, on say a Canon EOS 20D for

instance?

 

Is there a distinct improvement over the quality of a good Canon 35m

or 50mm prime?

 

I could kill two birds with one stone (many birds in fact) by

improving my digital platform from D70 to 20D with its better

viewfinder and more pixels, sell my R3A/Summicron 50mm and yet

retain the option of Summicron quality when I need/want it, sell my

D70 whilst it is still a current model (and demand exists for it).

 

This is just an idea and if Summicron R/20D use is too restrictive

(having to use a handheld meter and not being able to use apertures

would kill the idea) and the 20D does not offer any distinct

improvement over a D70 I may think of some other option. (No not a

DMR/R9 I am not a millionaire!)

 

Where do I get a Leica - Canon EOS adaptor and how does it cost

please?

 

Comments would be most appreciated from those who use Leica R lenses

on a Canon.

 

Thanks

[terry_rory]

And yes the Rolleiflex is still a probability but that is seperate .(for those who know I am getting a Rolleiflex soon)

[brambor]

someone correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the D70's viewfinder is better than 20D. I looke through 20D 5 months ago and it was like looking into a tunnel.

[roger_michel]

i typed your phrase <<Leica - Canon EOS adaptor>> into google and, as i expected, the cameraquest page popped up. google is very useful. you should try it.

 

there is much material in the archive, both here and at the canon site, on the R lenses as used with canon bodies.

 

i typed "lecia R lenses Canon 20D" into the PN earch engine and up popped this link http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002f.shtml.

 

search engines are very handy.

[bill_muth]

I haven't used Leica lenses, but have used Contax lenses on my 20D, so the following comments about operation should apply.

 

On a 20D you get automated exposure in Av and P modes (P acts like Av) modes. You can also use M (manual) mode as well. The typical shooting sequence would be:

 

- Open the aperture wide open

- Focus

- Set the aperture to the desired stop using the ring

- Shoot

 

The E-TTL system also gives you automated flash exposure; I also get good results using a standalone (Vivitar 285HV) flash.

 

As far as adapters, I got my Contax adapter from Cameraquest (http://www.cameraquest.com/adaptnew.htm.) They also have a Leica R adapter ($175). Also, Novoflex (http://www.novoflex.com) has an adapter for ?149, and Zörk sells one for $229. Finally, adapters can be found on eBay for around $50.

 

This PhotoNotes article (http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-manual-lenses/) is a good introduction to using manual lenses on EOS bodies.

 

Finally, IMO, as far as quality improvement over Canon's 35mm-50mm offerings, I'd say the improvement is likely to be "subtle" rather than "distinct". Canon's 35mm and 50mm offerings are very good, and the fact that the 20D uses the "sweet spot" of the image circle means that some problems (edge sharpness, vignetting, distortion) are minimized. It mainly depends on the "look" you're after.

[ben z]

When I borrowed a 20D for my son's graduation I took the opportunity to try my R lenses on it using the adaptor I have for my wife's Rebel Ti (so it's a backup for my R8). I had also borrowed some Canon primes including the 35/2 and 50/1.8. The 20D finder is indeed very tiny, even compared to the Rebel Ti. Why they can't just bump up the magnification on the finders is beyond me, unless it's just to get more people to buy the 1D series. However it is as easy to focus, easier in fact for me with wide angles and slower lenses than the R8 itself (but not by much, I don't mean to exaggerate this point). I also used the Canon and Leica 35 and 50 on the Ti with Velvia to check them out. Frankly, there might be some differences but not enough to make me want to mess with manually stopping the lenses down if I didn't have to. Where they differ majorly is in build quality, the Leica lenses are solid like tanks and the Canons are like plastic toys by comparison. The flipside of that is that the Leicas weigh a whole lot more too.

 

If I were interested in shooting digital (which I may be someday, if the doomsday predictions about film come true) I wouldn't hesitate to use the 20D with my R lenses, but only if I couldn't sell the R lenses for enough to buy the equivalent Canon lenses. The weight saving and the diaphragm coupling would be more of an issue to me than the small differences in optical character, especially the 35. The 50 Summicron is definitely more contrasty wide open than the Canon 50/1.8 (though by f/4 they're too close to call). I'd say the 20D and an adaptor makes a decent substitute for the DMR for those of us who don't have an extra $6000 (the current price) lying around. If you get the adaptor I highly recommend the one by Fotodiox on ebay. It has a larger lens release tab and it doesn't require removing the lens from the camera first like the Novoflex adaptors. Also the flange is polished stainless like the R camera flange. Basically the Novoflex adaptors ($175) are made with the idea in mind that you get one for each lens, whereas the Fotodiox ($90) actually convert a Canon body to a Leica R.

[EricM]

you're an odd guy to me Trevor. Always changing everything up every couple of months, never content. you wont notice anything side by side on your new canon with various manufactures' lenses. everyone here will argue, but carry on. And then you'll be tired in a couple of months of the typical buttery skin tones that come stock out the canon, or perhaps the lame flash ttl system and how these foriegn lenses wont work for your low light manual focusing wedding work, so you'll flogg it all and then onto something else...

[brambor]

I use EF 50/1.4 with my Canon SLR's and the lens optical quality is very good. It has a different 'look' than the Leica but one can not much complain about sharpness, bokeh and the other stuff. It is a good lens. IMHO I wouldn't bother with non Canon lenses on Canon cameras.

[terry_rory]

Eric, odd maybe but I don't care. Photography is my hobby and enjoyment. I like to play. Should I stick religiously to one set up for life for fear of being thought odd? (This is not marriage it is fun!)

 

Yes I know how to use google but wanted peoples personal experience from those who are using such a combination.

 

To those who have given such advice, thanks. I am going to read it all now.

[terry_rory]

As for the viewfinder I assumed from the frequent slagging off that the D70 v/f was the worst of all possible viewfinders! (I get on with it OK but assumed everything else must be better.)

[brambor]

Trevor,

<p>

Yesterday in my parking lot I shot this:

<p>

<img src="http://www.widereach.net/rodina/images/2005/trevor04202005.jpg">

<p>

yesterday using Canon D30 w 50mm/1.4 while I was shooting this:

<img src="http://www.hockeyskillsacceleration.com/mastp/images/mastplogofeathered.jpg">

[EricM]

" Should I stick religiously to one set up for life for fear of being thought odd?"

 

of course not. but your change of underwear reminds me of students i've had that want to go into the wet darkroom and learn to print with five various film stocks all pushed and pulled on various papers at various grades of contrast all the while never knowing or becoming familiar with a single starting point, the negative. that's all.

[terry_rory]

Bill (& Ben Z) thanks good stuff. This really helps me.

 

 

Eric again.

 

In case you have not noticed I am a complete slut when it comes to brand loyalty I have none. I enjoy new ideas and new challenges, different equipment and going out and shooting it. I have no great loyalty to film either but it still offers me a 'dimension' that digital does not and will get dumped like a shot if I want to. I am not a Nikon user or a Voigtlander user or a 'Leica person' despite owning bits of all of it. I am me and I use whatever I want even if it is a mistake. Leica was not a mistake although rangefinding is. (for me I mean) If I use film it does not mean I hate digital and if I use digital I am not deriding film. If I use Nikon for a while and Canon takes my fancy I will change. I may buy a TLR and get bored with it. No one is hurt if I sell it are they? I do not get this 'brand loyalty' thing. If I want it and can afford it and it is fun I will do it.

 

I am also not a professional or a student so do not have to take it all so seriously.

[terry_rory]

Very nice portrait Rene

[terry_rory]

There is absolutely no virtue whatsoever in people saying... "I have faithfully stuck with brand X all my life" this not life or death its 'consumer durables' (at a trivial level) or 'tools' and I have never heard of any photographer whom I admired being praised for the brand of camera used or his/her faithfulness to it.

[EricM]

i haven't said anything about brands have i? i guess the darkroom metaphor wasn't successful.

[patricks]

Trevor, I too have been through various equipments/systems, I don't think there is any harm in trying various tools, nor admitting that one likes cameras/gear and it is not always about the oh-so-holy-artistic-results.

 

the reson to switch between Nikon and Canon is not about viewfinder on current model. if you are starting from/close to scratch and don't have a big investment in glass, alt. don't mind taking a minor financial hit of switching, there are a couple of majors diffs between the companies/strategies: 1) lens flexibility: Canon has the most flexible lens-mount in terms of being able to use a variaty of brandes lenses on an EOS body (albeit with limited use). Nikon has superior flexibility in terms of using the same lens line-up over time. 2) Product release process/philosophy: I think few people would argue that Canon has a more aggressive PPP and strives to be first with the latest and maximizing megapixels, having the largest IS/VR based lens-line up etc. Nikon is certainly more conservative. Just decide which product strategy you want. 3) Market awareness/communication: Far from perfect, Canon seem to communicate/announce product changes more readily than Nikon. They are fast to produce firmware upgrades, have employees like Chuck Westerfall scan message-boards to provide updates etc. Nikon is dead quiet. At all times. 4) Technical features: what is important to you? flash-synch/system, MP/file size, intuitive handling/ergonomics, certain menu-structure, open RAW standards (Nikon recently decided to make the white balance data in their RAW/NEF format only readable via Nikon software and they are now in a huge battle with Adobe) etc. 5) sensor size: Canon of course differeniate between pros, semi-pros, and amateurs with their full-frame, 1.3x and 1.6x sensor sizes. Nikon believes in 1.5x across the board. 6) Product range/direction: Nikon seems to targeting the entry-level/amateurs more with the D70, and the new D70s and D50. Still no word about a D200(?) 3 years after the D100 was introduced. There is a big leap between a D70 and a D2X (yeah, I'm not counting in 4MP D2Hs etc.) And so on - I'm sure we can build on this list forever.

 

Net/net: Leica glass on a 20D won't be the solution you are looking for. Viewfinders on amateur models like D70 or 20D will never be really good, because the manufacturers needs to differentiate between amateur and pro models. If you invest in the right glass, Nikon or Canon glass can be as good as Leicas. Or Contax/Zeiss. A Canon 35/1.4L or a 85/1.2L will stand up nicely against any 35mm glass out there, but you need to pay top dollars.

 

If you like/believe in Nikon's overall business strategy, stick with it and invest in good Nikkor lenses instead (28/1.4, 85/1.4, 70-200/2.8 VR etc.).

[terry_rory]

Patrick I have little invested in Nikon glass. My D70 is used with but 2 lenses (Sigma 18-50mm f/2.8 EX DC and a Nikon 50mm f/1.4 AF-D for low light) I also have an SB-600 flashgun.

 

I use Nikons own RAW/NEF convertor to download RAW into PS7. I was thinking of getting the (yet to appear) Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC that was announced on feb 14th but will shelve that decision for now (It is to be available in both Canon and Nikon) in favour of the Leica R prime option.

 

Thanks for the comprehensive review of the state of both companies and their approach. Helpful.

 

I have a colleague who is on the brink of jumping into Nikon DSLR but is a bit strapped for money and I could sell him my D70/lenses/flash stuff for a reasonable return and put it in the 'pot' with the R3A/Summicron money when I sell. 20D's are just starting to tumble in price so I guess it is about the right time to change over if I do.

 

The ability to use Leica SLR lenses (and Contax SLR eh? hmmm..) on Canon is a real plus point and I will look into this a lot more especially since I saw the price of good used Leica R lenses (very reasonable even for a 50mm f/1.4 Summilux R which suprised me)

 

Now, as for being being able to use Contax/Zeiss SLR manual focus lenses, that is a nice suprise.

[brambor]

To be a devil's advocate, Trevor, my Canon 1v laser matte viewfinder is so good that the picture rarely look as good as in the viewfinder ;-)

[brambor]

The new Konica 7D seems to have the best viewfiinder of all the new sub $2000 dsls but my favorite is the Pentax istDs...that is if I was looking into DSLR...which I'm not...I'm still mesmerized by looking through trannies and love to make my own trix negs.

[patricks]

i don't know how things are in the UK but there are plenty of opportunities to pick up Canon DSLRs here in the US. E.g. Dell just fisished a drive on Canon DSLRs, 15% off plus a padding rebate + something lese - the 20D w/ kit lens was selling for under $1,100 for 48 hrs.

 

Personally, I didn't find the 20D to be a viable option because for my humble photography having the camera with me in the first place is key, and the 20D was to large/heavy to drag around, combined wiht a horrific high-pitch shutter noise that cuts through. the VF is nothing to celebrate either, but one can certainly not argue with the quality of the files.

 

The interesting observation in all this is that people who use to shoot with a $300 Elan 7/33 are now willing to fork up $1,500 for a DSLR body only to "upgrade" every 18 months or so. I tell ya, this digital revolution has been the best thing since slized bread for the industry...

[terry_rory]

The biggest advantages (to me) of the Pentax *ist is the LTD lenses and the size. It did cross my mind.

[dg1]

I'm just a hanger around the fort here, but I'll add to the discussion that I enjoy my 10D's viewfinder very much. Obviously it's not like a bessa or leica finder, but it is very clear and bright. And I don't find it terribly small. I assume the 20D is similar. That said it's my understanding that in the world of APS-C sensor size DSLRs the Pentax *istDS takes top honors for the largest viewfinder. I do a lot of changing up of cameras also, and I think it's simply a matter of seeking that thing that might click, and it's fun to experiment. Different people have different ways of learning. Some of us take the less efficient scenic route and have fun on the journey.

[terry_rory]

hmmm.. the 20d is getting a bit less attractive Patrick. My D70 is really quite quiet and compact (especially with the 50mm lens) and fits easily in the camera bag. I really had not realised the 20d viewfinder was worse than my D70 viewfinder either.

 

I guess I should think very hard about this, but as I said in my original posting... "this is just an idea" and will hopefully be helpful to anyone reading this thread who is thinking through similar options and wanting to use Leica R lenses on a DSLR and cannot afford a DMR.

[barefoot]

Trev,

 

The viewfinder in the 10D is quite small (although I think its a fraction bigger than the 20D), but more importantly the focussing screen isn't set up for manual focussing. Changing the focussing screen isn't simple either - although a hack is available on the web. If you OK with zone focussing or shoot a lot of stationary things the viewfinder thing wont be too much of a problem.

 

From what I've read, most of the people using hybrid systems are buying up C/Y wide angle lenses but using mainly Canon for lenses 50mm and above. If you go for a 20D, dont forget the 1.6 mutliplier.