Retouching Hell - Question about charging for retouching Bride's images

[picturesque]

Am curious how some of you handle the following type of situation.

After the wedding, the bride realizes she hates her double chin or

some other aspect of herself is not perfect, and wants you to retouch

her image in every single photo in which she appears--"It's so easy

with digital, right?". I remember spotting the gap in one of my

bride's bangs in umpteen photos that went in her album, and this was

in the film days. Recently, I removed eye bags and double chins off

many, many photos for one of my clients. Do some of you "just say

no", send it out, or charge big time for the retouching?

[gpdno]

$75/hour give her an estimate for the job and make her give you half upfront.

[melisa]

In that situation Nadine, I would personally charge for the time it takes me to do it--sounds like a lot of work. The labs do.

 

I have retouched things that I couldn't personally handle, like unnoticed stray hairs. But, more than one chin removed from every picture is a cosmetic issue and far more work then lightening bags, it's photographic surgeory. Does she have insurance? Sorry couldn't resist. Actually, most insurances don't even cover cosmetic plastic surgeory, right? ;-)

 

You could make a package. The Nip/Tuck Package, "because if you don't look good....well, you just don't look good". WOW! It's bedtime.

[terry_rory]

This is unfair. It is her fault, if she does not like being overweight, not yours. She should have dieted and exercised before the wedding if she wanted to look her best. If not then she should learn to accept what she looks like in a photograph.

 

WYAIWYG. What you are is what you get.

 

I cannot stand looking at myself in photographs so I don't get in photographs. If I had to be in a photograph I would accept that anything I did not like was down to me to put right not the photographer.

 

It is also unethical (in my opinion only of course) to alter what is a historical 'document' like a wedding album. The album also belongs to people like future children and they deserve to see their parents in such photos. Not some photoshopped 'freak' with their true characteristics airbrushed out.

 

Rant over. Sorry.

[jonathon]

I think there can be a certain amount of retouching the odd photo (maybe 4 or 5 key photos over a whole wedding in addition to colour, contrast, levels etc) which its reasonable to expect, but every photo of her, no way. The trick in handling this is to make it known BEFORE the event. Either in the contract or simply by letting them know if there are any photos which need retouching after the event at the client's request, it will be $50/hr and on average takes x minutes per photo.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Here I have a yellow page advert under retoughing; for over a decade and a half. I once used an Adams retouching machine; then Photostyler; then Photoshop when it came out.<b>Folks will press me to commit to a flat price; over the phone; when I have not seen the damaged print to "fix" yet.</b>You will get more paying jobs when you get experience; preview what has to be done; and figure what your time is worth; and quote a flat price. Folks dont really want an open ended XXX bucks per hour quote; with no clue if your are a joker; or a guru. Some jobs you may goof up on pricing. Learn from your mistakes; keep track of the time spent. Nadine; quote them a fee to fix each image. It doesnt matter if it is Photoshop or an Adams retouching machine; time is money. There are folks who always want some major retouching for nothing; and they will push your buttons; to get you to cave in; and do it for free. These freebie jobs dont pay the gas; cable; or electric bills; but just become a hellish headache; and zap your energy.

[fotografz]

Have one done in front of her. Then she'll realize it isn't just magic, but good old hard

work.

 

We've been doing a little of that kind of "retouching" without being asked so they never

even see that it was done. PS Liquify and Distort tools make pretty quick work of it once

you get the technique down. It usually results in the package being expanded.

 

But every photo with the bride in it? Yikes! However, I wouldn't say no... perhaps just

advise that maybe not all the shots need it and give them a retouching quote for the main

images that are most important .

[watts]

I agree that you should simply quote for the retouching at an

appropriate rate - time has to cost money. However, on a more

general point I do not think it is unreasonable for a client to

expect a skilled portrait and/or wedding photographer to be

aware of issues like double chins and shoot in ways which

minimise such 'blemishes'. This should certainly be the case for

the formals where the use of lighting, camera position, etc.

would be geared towards showing the bride and groom in the

most flattering way. It is this knowledge and skill that separates

a good pro from the rank amateur and is traditionally why people

pay for professionals to do the job - it isn't because the pros

have the better camera. I think a lot of 'weekend pros' forget this.

[stacy]

I had a bride similar to this in December- she has not ordered her album yet...we'll see. Double chins are hard to fix- if you just get rid of the shadow their head looks giant- which is not flattering either:) I don't know what you should tell her, but I would not PS every image- that's crazy... maybe just say-"what? You look beautiful- don't be silly!" and laugh and laugh...

[gary_woodard]

Tell her you can do it with no problem, sub the work out and add 10%.

[vladimir_pcholkin___washin]

Hi everybody,I am new here.

The most important thing is to have very clear descripton of services provided in your contract with the client. This way if your client wants extra services it cost extra. I print exact description of the job in my contracts and never had problems. I started shooting weddings 3 years ago after my commercial, editorial and stock photography went south. In commercial assignment very detailed description is the norm.

[vladimir_pcholkin___washin]

Hi again. Sorry forgot to include my suggestion.

Retouching her double chin is not an easy job. I will take one file, retouch it, see how long it takes for time estimation. Show your work to the bride and give her an estimate based on $50-$100 per hour for digital retouching.

[todd_masters]

This is not a bad thing, call it up scope and add it to your package in your contracts up front.

 

"digital cosmetic enhancements - $10 per image" or whatever you find economically feasable. Removing double chins is a lot of work and I would do it your self because it will totally change the image and represent you. This work can easily double the time of your workflow reducing your earned wages by half. I fix flaws that are mine or quick fixes that really enhance an image for free, but charge beyond that otherwise it will never end once she discovers that you can give her the shade of hair she always wanted, porcelain skin, whiter teeth and eyes, a face lift, take 25lbs off etc... Turn it into cash and start disclosing it up front. I have a VIP package that includes unlimited editing which has been popular and also shows folks that things can't just be given away. Protect your time! However for this one time until you figure out what you want to do, I would explain how long this takes and that you normally would charge extra but she can pick her two favorite shots and you will do them for free and charge beyond that. Be honest, tell her this could take you about 20 hours to process and that your time is not free. She should understand.

[nicola_grimshaw_mitchell]

Most of my brides need retouching in one way or another. I do this for free before they even see the proofs.

 

- All Brides want to look gorgeous on their wedding day. A beautiful shot may be ruined for the bride if her double chin is obvious. I want her to pick the beautiful shot for her album or a reprint and so I Liquify her chin a LITTLE. Most Brides say to me they were surprised at how nice they looked in my photos. They have no idea! They go away absolutely chuffed to bits and hence almost always upgrade their packages or order lots of extras.

 

I never alter the way they look in an obvious way, its mainly spots, chins and nipped in waists and arms. I dont work on all photos of the bride, only the close up ones. This sounds mercenery, but I also do a little on Mums if they have contributed to my fee. They too are thrilled at how young/thin they look and order Parents albums! I must stress, I only do this in a subtle way, no-one ever realises what I have done. They feel tons better about themselves and hence order more from me (and also recommend me) - everyone is happy!

 

However - if a bride wanted significant alterations to photos I had already completed and shown as proofs then I would charge, prob about ?75 an hour. No-one has ever asked this of me because all their photos are already gorgeous. It only takes a little time and reeps lots of benefits for all.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Nicola

[tony_cabrera]

I can see it now, meeting with a potential customer...

 

Wow I happen to notice you have a double chin! We have a Nip Tuck package for that, you know. I'll make you look better than you do now!

 

I've always been afraid to do any body retouching as they may see it as an insult. Only minor things like zits. I've never been asked to alter major appearances so this is certainly an interesting request.

 

Good luck Nadine... certainly charge for it!

[kevin cook - stratford upo]

I recently did a shoot which when I came to look at the bride she was suffering from some obvious spots which I touched down a bit (10 seconds work with repair tool). They loved the shots and never mentioned the 'extras' so that was fine. I did a portrait of a family member (luckily) and removed a spot and it was the first thing she noticed and wanted it back! So you never know!

[marcin harla]

<i>...wants you to retouch her image in every single photo in which she appears--"It's so easy with digital, right?"</i>

 

<p>There is only one answer to that. Educate your customers. Many times they think retouching is as simple as clicking one button and the magic happens, because it's digital. Sure removing couple small blemishes won't take more than 2 minutes, but if you multiply that by 300 pics it's suddenly 10 hours in front of the monitor. What if the image is more time demanding (like double chin)? It can eat up your time quickly.

 

<p>You can include 5,10,20 or whatever retouched images in the package, and charge extra for anything above that.

[t._duane_jones]

Marc, I'm curious: What do you use the liquify and other tools for? I've discovered that anything you mention is very interesting and useful!

 

Thanks,

Duane

[cjogo]

$125.00 per hour for all digital work ..but we include the negatives ..so they are at liberty to choose another source for their retouching.

[think27]

I don't shoot digitally - but my lab scans all my negatives at the time of processing and keeps them on file. I tell my couples that there is a minimum of $20 for cosmetic fixes.. $20 per hour - 1 hour minimum. My lab does the work.

[fotografz]

I've lipo'ed so many lbs off of brides I should be required to have a license for

plastic surgery. But in many cases I see it as my own failing for not changing

the angle or swapping lenses, so I fix it and never tell them.

 

I'd post a sample, but I'm in Las Vegas on my laptop with no access to my

files. The best technique I've found to date is subtile use of the liquify tool.

About 5 minutes is usually what it takes me now, but at first it's tricky until you

get it down pat ... just like anything in PhotoShop. The main thing is learning

how to set the proper pressure and using the correct choice of tools in the first

place. So, give it time if you try doing it. BTW, it's great for reducing noses

when you used a bit to wide of a lens : -)

[daydreamsart]

The bride is right, it is easy with digital ... compared to dieting and exercise that is! Double chins are easy if they are profile, but straight on is a different story. If someone complains about their weight or whatever before hand, I pose them with retouching in mind. I also NEVER admit that I did anything. I only drop them a size or two, not enough to be obvious and they are happy. I haven't had anyone ask me if I did anything, I think they don't want to know. I did a photo shoot of a girl's camp once. All the advisors were a bit over weight. I did a bit of digital lipo suction on all 12 of them. None of them asked me to confess and they all loved their pictures! I haven't done much serious work with the liquify tool, but I do see how it could be real helpful. I can't imagine retouching a double chin for a whole wedding. Good luck, Nadine! As for "spots", if it's a zit, I erase it. If it's a mole, I lighten it.

[todd frederick]

This is my opinion:

 

Edward Weston, (portrait and landscape photographer), in the 1940's, put a sign in his Carmel, CA studio:

 

"No Retouched Portraits"

 

My approach is the same: take photos just as the camera sees them and just as the people are.

 

I no longer use soft image filters, and I'm not going to even consider transforming a matronly lady (or old geezer) into a 20ish bombshell (or hunk)!

 

All that I will do, with digital retouching, is to remove a few serious, temporary blemishes, and that's it.

 

Nowdays, I only do PJ and documentary photography (weddings and portraits), with a few family formals...no exceptions.

 

Don't get involved in *deceptive portrait photography*.

[todd frederick]

PS: Nadine...."Retouching Hell" will not be Hell if you don't let yourself get sucked into the whole retouching tornado. Just say "No!"

 

Turn down those jobs from the get-go! If you agree to those demands you have made your own Hell!

[twmeyer]

Retouch one and show her a print, then tell her how long that one took and that you will rework as many as she wants for $100 per hour (or whatever your hourly rate works out to be when you're actually making photographs). The problem will sort itself out for you... t<p> (ps. if you do sub it out, mark it up 100%, because you <i>will</i> be sorry if you don't. It's not fun being stuck in between, and paying for it, too...)