Basic sheet-film processing at home

[ed_brock2]

I currently process my B&W 5x7 in home-made black PVC tubes with

light traps, so after loading them, everything takes place in

daylight. My problem is that I am limited to 4 sheets - all that I

can juggle (keeping all of them rolling in a tempering solution while

maintaining the right temp. and changing out chemicals in tubes at

one min. intervals.) I've processed 50 sheets so far with perfect

results, but this has no future. This all leaves my brain fried

compared to tank processing of 35mm & 120. To work in pitch

blackness in open trays and risk uneven development and scratches for

me is also not an option. Are there other alternatives? Can the

Jobo Expert Drums be used alone, without the processing machine?

Sorry, but I'm new at this and could find no answers in the film

processing archives.

[pvp]

Which is "not an option," working in total darkness or tray processing? Dip-and-dunk processing with stainless steel hangers and large tanks has been around for a long time, and there's a reason why it was pretty much the standard for many years: it works, no scratches, even development, repeatable results. With 8x10 tanks, you can get hangers that will hold 4 sheets of 4x5, so it's not unrealistic to think you could process a hundred sheets at one time. Use an audible timer to trigger your agitation intervals and the transfer to the stop bath (a cassette tape recorder works wonders.) Once the film has been in the fixer for a little bit you can turn the room lights on.

[robert meier]

Working in the dark wtih trays is very simple. There really isn't any problem to it, and it is very efficient, simple, quick. It is the ideal way to process a few sheets of film.

[ted_stoddard]

Hello..... I use a HP Combiplan for 4x5 sheet film this can do 6 sheets at a time and is just like using a roll film dev tank... the only down side is that you will need to practice loading before using it to develop any film i only say this because it can be a challenge to load film in the dark if you dont start your own system by practicing.... I also suggest a jobo tank which can be used without a machine by taking off the cog that attaches to the machine for rotating.... you will need to replace the cog with a orange rubber like stopper that sometimes comes with the jobo tank.... depending on what size you decide to buy there are ones that can do from 6 to 10 sheets of 4x5 at a time and there are other ones which can do 5x7 and all the way up to 20x24 size film look on efabay for "Jobo Expert Drums" they can also be purchased new on many photo websites dealing with processing equipment like B&H and many others.... if you buy an expert drum you will need a pump which is a foot pump too get the top off of the expert drum or a sturdy table with a little bang on the side it works but not fun to do.... I hope this helps... Good Luck... Ed

[sanders_mcnew]

Ed, I'm with you -- life's too short to spend it in the dark.

 

Check out JOBO tanks. The Jobo 3010 is an option, but an expensive one. Much less

cheaper is a JOBO 2551 tank, which takes two six-sheet reels. You get to process 12 4x5

sheets at a time in conditions identical to your 35mm/120 tanks. If you want, you can add

a tank extension and another reel to expand your capacity. JOBO sells a

complete kit with everything you need (2551 tank, reels, loader jig), their part number

4342, for $165 at B+H -- about half the cost of the 3010 tank, which can process only 10

sheets at a time.

 

Whether you use the 2551 or the 3010, don't burn your money on the JOBO base. You

have three options. (1) roll the tank back and forth on the countertop. (2) Spend $20 and

get a new JOBO roller base (part 1509) that allows you to rotate it in one place. (3) Spend

$50 and get a used Beseler or Omega or Unicolor motor base -- search photo.net archives

for Beseler and Jobo and you will find the threads that discuss this.

 

I use the 2551 tank and get glorious results every time. Try Bergger 200 (expose it at

100!) processed in Rodinal -- gorgeous.

 

Sanders McNew

www.mcnew.net

[michael_kadillak13]

There is not a more cost effective and expedient method of developing film than tray developing it. A set of trays will cost you $25 and many great photographers use it very effectively. A used JOBO unit with film drums will run you over $1,300 and does a great job, but each sheet gets exactly the same development. Using a Development By Inspection method allow the photographer to develop each sheet to its unique requirements. I have learned to do up to 15 sheets of 8x10 at one time in trays initially with a green 15 watt filter and later on with $250 infrared goggles.

 

Yes, the JOBO drums can be used separately, but it is not as optimal as tray developing IMHO.

 

Cheers!

[ronald_moravec1]

If you are lucky, you will find a Nikor stainless tank. Holds 12 sheets and uses 32 oz solution. Agitation by inversion just like the smaller 35mm ones.

 

Make sure you get the band to hold the sheets on the "reel.'

[silent1]

The Nikor stainless sheet film tanks are on eBay almost all the time -- I've seen them bring anywhere from $51 (for one that closed yesterday with a stock photo of a cosmetically ugly example and note of missing fill/drain cap) to over $150 (for one in new condition, in box with instructions). These are worth having, not least for their versatility in handling any sheet film size from 2x3 up to 4x5, including all metric sizes in that range (and the slightly different film pack sizes, though one doesn't see much of that film these days). There are at least two on auction right now, one "new in box" according to the seller (but watch out, one was a zero-feedback seller, always a red flag).

 

You could fairly easily make a multi-tank in imitation of the Jobo Expert drums, using PVC or ABS tubes set into a larger tube; this would allow handling up to six sheets in a single tank. Alternately, a larger tube could be used with simple open-ended tubes inside to carry the film; I've done this with 1 1/2" ABS pipe inside my large Nikor tank (which, unfortunately, has dual 220 reels rather than the sheet film cage); if you can find fluorescent tube protectors that fit the smaller T-8 tubes, you can fit seven of them in this larger diameter tank or a similar one made from 4" ABS pipe.

 

And Jay de Fehr has recently mentioned (on APUG) a method he's been using to process up to 4-5 sheets in a Paterson tank (though he's using 3x4, the same method would work in a 4x135 stainless tank with 4x5 film) -- simply curl the film into an open sided tube, emulsion in, and put a rubber band around it to hold the curve; loosely stuff these "film tacos" into the tank and close the lid (don't leave out the core -- it's required to complete the tank's light trap). You should be able to get up to seven films into a standard one quart stainless tank this way.

 

I haven't found my ABS tubes restrictive; I seldom shoot more than a half dozen sheets at a time (I have only ten plate holders for one camera, three for the other). When necessary, I use couplers and a second length of tube with each pair of caps, and can process six sheets at a time in three double tubes (I use a full tube and inversion agitation, but it should work the same way with rolling and minimal developer). Doing the same with your 5x7 system would let you handle eight sheets with the same effort as four, if you have a large enough tray to roll them in.

[tedharris]

Ed,

 

Zeroing in specifically on your question as i trelates to processing 5x7. The expert drum

you will want is either the 3005 0r 3006. I don'tt know why you would want to use the

drum alone, although you can as has been mentioned. These drums are expensive,, you

will pay almost as much new as you will pay for a used CPA processor (whichis all you

need along with the drum). My point being that the drums fetch a high price used and the

DAP, and to a lesser extent, CPP processors can be had in the 350-600 range in good

working order. That would be the mor esensible, less mind numbing way to go I would

think.

[brian_ellis16]

I've used BTZS tubes for years with 4x5 and 8x10. I do six 4x5 tubes at a time in a tempering tray but I could easily do a dozen with a larger tray or by abandong the tray and rolling the tubes along the bottom of my darkroom sink. I did three 8x10 tubes at a time only because that's all I owned. I probably could have done at least six in the space available to me, which was a darkroom sink about 8 feet long. So I'm wondering whether your limit of four sheets at a time is perhaps related to the techniques you're using.

 

I don't know what you mean by "juggling" the tubes. They can either be rolled along a flat surface (which is what I did with 8x10 because I didn't have a tempering tray) using the flat of your hand or they can be rolled back and forth in a tempering tray. Some people also "pinch" roll two at a time in a batch of maybe six or eight, periodically reversing each group of two so that they aren't constantly rolling in the same direction. Any of these methods will allow you to do more than four at a time depending on your available space.

 

I don't think you have to use a tempering tray. I use one for 4x5 just because BTZS sells one but with 8x10 I just rolled the tubes along the bottom of the darkroom sink. If your times are in the 4 to 8 minute range, and if your darkroom doesn't get overly hot or cold, I think you can adjust your times to handle minor variations in temperature. Frankly the tempering tray doesn't work all that well anyhow, when I check the developer temperature after the film is developed it's always a couple degrees warmer than when I started.

 

What do you mean by "changing out chemicals in tubes at one min intervals?" Are you filling the tubes with stop and fix? You don't need to do that (in fact it isn't a good idea with fix). You can leave the film in the tubes and dunk them in an 11x14 or 16x20 tray or a large bucket of stop bath then remove the sheets from the tubes and put them in one or more trays of fix.

 

I used trays for a while and share your dislike of them. They had the following major (to me) disadvantages: (1) you have to stand over them inhaling chemical fumes for five to fifteen minutes: (2) you have to do everything in the dark until the fix stage; (3) you risk scratches, especially as you try to go beyond doing more than a couple sheets at a time - scratches didn't happen very often but I have zero tolerance for scratches so once every thirty or forty sheets was once too often; (4) it was a pain to keep track of which sheets got which development times. Everyone has their own preferences and plenty of people are happy using trays, I just hated them mayself and can understand your aversion to using them.

[benjamin_lineberry]

I use a jobo tank for processing 7x17 and 11x14. It did such a great, consistant job, I went out and got a kit to do 4x5 (I used to use Yankee tanks, which suck.)

I don't have a jobo base, though. I got a beseler motor base off of ebay for $7. It works great. I can do 12 sheets of 4x5 at a time, and they all turn out perfect every time.

[sanders_mcnew]

Donald,

 

I read with interest your description of Jay's "film taco" technique. I am looking for an easy inexpensive way to process 8x10 sheets in daylight. I have a JOBO 3063 tank, that is meant to develop six 8x10 prints, not negatives. I have my doubts about whether negatives will stay in place in this tank. Do you suppose that Jay's technique would work as well with 8x10 sheets? I'm thinking that a larger negative might be more prone to rolling up into a a burrito more than a taco, and the film edges might overlap and ruin the development. Perhaps a looser rubber band would do it ... thoughts?

 

Sanders McNew //www.mcnew.net

[scott_walton2]

You could always use rack like these on Ebay...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4204&item=3876687402&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW&tc=photo

[r_hofland]

I agree that the Jobo 3005 or 3006 (different tanks designed for processing 4x5 and 5x7 --OR-- 5x7 and 8x10 sheet films) would be a good albeit expensive investment (about $300 per unit) that would specifically address the 5x7 film. If you are doing color then this is by far the best investment but that then requires the tabletop processor system as well, for a total of several thousand dollars.

 

Alternately you could invest in either 5x7 or 8x10 rubber (or plastic) tanks and the stainless steel film hangers of choice. You would then nominally be required to use a darkroom for all of the steps up to and including the first few minutes of fixing. If you were only processing 4x5 sheets the Kombi, Yankee, Nikon or many other daylight tanks would work out fine, but 5x7 sheet film is an issue.

 

However, I've also pondered this problem and decided it is indeed possible to make a daylight processing case using marine plywood painted flat black (and its two halves nesting inside each other like apple boxes) that would cover up the Kodak rubber tanks (or Calumet/Leedal stainless steel units) needed to complete the development to fixation steps, and to allow for the safe and reliable transit of a film hanger rack from tank to tank while in total interior darkness. In my plan there is at least one tank for developer, another for a water or acid stopbath, and a third for fixer. Ideally for me, I'd add several more steps and do it all in a temperature controlled waterbath that was part of the entire contraption. You'd still have to load it in the dark (I'd generally put the film in a distilled water bath before closing it up) but the rest of it could be done in daylight, and it would work for all sizes up to 8x10 (I have the roll film hangers needed to make this true for me). This system would also work for color film although I suspect I'd prefer to stick to C-41 chemistry.

 

While my plan is to do most of this work myself since it is mostly dependent of reasonably skilled carpentry, some of the metal work will clearly need to be done by a skilled sheet metal shop with much more experience in TIG welding stainless steel than me. I suspect the final cost for the project would be several hundred dollars beyond the basic cost of the tanks, hangers and hanger rack. However, that is still much cheaper than a Jobo system, and nearly as capable for color work, and I'd say much more capable for B&W since it would be excellent for some of the specialized development techniques including "stand" development.

 

If money is no object then the Jobo system with a CPP-2 processor better meets the bill for overall flexibility. However, you don't need the processor if you are willing and able to do the agitation and maintain temperature control manually.

 

By the way, Mr. Brock, the "black" tubes you mentioned are almost certainly made of ABS, not PVC. That is important since the glues for different plastics are often incompatible, and because some plastics stand up to photo chemicals better than others (Kodak has an excellent book on equipment design that covers these issues). I haven't heard of any problems with the ABS (it is also used for many darkroom sinks), but the glued joints should be watched.

[silent1]

<i>I read with interest your description of Jay's "film taco" technique. I am looking for an easy inexpensive way to process 8x10 sheets in daylight. I have a JOBO 3063 tank, that is meant to develop six 8x10 prints, not negatives. I have my doubts about whether negatives will stay in place in this tank. Do you suppose that Jay's technique would work as well with 8x10 sheets? I'm thinking that a larger negative might be more prone to rolling up into a a burrito more than a taco, and the film edges might overlap and ruin the development. Perhaps a looser rubber band would do it ... thoughts?</i><p>

 

I don't know that the technique would work at all with 8x10 -- as you say, the larger film is much more flexible than the smaller sheets on the same base, though Jay said the 3x4 film was more prone to the taco fold than to overlapping. In addition, this technique depends on a full tank to ensure all films are immersed and develop evenly; the roll agitation used with BTZS tubes and similar may not evenly cover all films, even if you have enough developer to develop a number of sheets. You could easily put the 8x10 film into a 3" pipe section, of course, but then it might not fit in the tank.<p>

 

You could probably fabricate spacers to let you mount the 8x10 film in the tank meant for 8x10 paper -- there's only a couple mm difference in dimension, the film being that much smaller. That might be the simplest method, especially if you have a roller base for that drum.

[sandy_king]

"I currently process my B&W 5x7 in home-made black PVC tubes with light traps, so

after loading them, everything takes place in daylight. My problem is that I am

limited to 4 sheets - all that I can juggle (keeping all of them rolling in a tempering

solution while maintaining the right temp. and changing out chemicals in tubes at

one min. intervals."

 

Not sure why you are having so much trouble with the black tubes. I can easily

process up to six sheets at a time with the tubes and it is very easy to do. I just load

them all in the dark (using extra caps). I fill the other cap with developer and after the

pre-soak place the tubes over the cap. When I am ready to begin development I just

pick up all of the tubes and plop them in the water bath, and roll them around for

the time of development. When development is finished I transfer the film, in the

tube, to a tray of stop bath. It takes about 10-15 seconds to do this for all six tubes.

Then I carry out the rest of the operation in trays in room light.

 

I used trays in the past for processing 5X7 sheet film, but using the tubes is much

easier for me, plus the risk of scratching the negatives is greatly reduced. If I were

developing over 15-20 sheets of film every day I might consider replacing the tubes

with a Jobo and expert drum, but for small volume the Jobo does not make much

sense to me.

 

Sandy

[paul_ewins]

Ed,

Yes, you should be able to use the Expert Drums wthout the CPA/CPP processor. It has a light trap built into the lid, so once the lid is on you should be able to do all processes with the lights on. I would imagine that you could keep on manually rolling it in a tempering bath or put it on a roller base and extend your times to allow for the temperature drop. Don't forget to prewarm the drum in your tempering bath prior to pouring the developer to prevent the drum cooling the developer.

 

If you are buying new I would be looking at the 3005 which will fit 5 sheets of 8x10, 5x7 or 4x5 rather than the 3006 which will take 6 sheets of 5x7 or 4x5. The extra sheet won't make much difference but the ability to process 8x10 could be a big advantage down the track.

 

I've got the 3010 which I got at a swapmeet for $80. On eBay they are usually twice that and the 3006 and 3005 are similar. My CPP with Lift was another swapmeet buy. It was $320 including a bunch of print and film drums (but no expert drums) and the solution bottles. BTW, the new square Ilford bottles are the same size and shape as the JOBO solution bottles.

 

You could buy the expert drum first and then wait for a good deal on a second hand processor. Even the ATL processors can be had cheaply if you are in the right place at the right time. The processors really do make life a lot easier.

[bruce_appel]

Just tried the taco technique this afternoon. Four sheets of 4X5 in a patterson 4 reel tank. I used the end of one reel held in place with a rubber band on the middle tube to keep the film from coming out of the solution during agitation. It took one liter of developer to cover the film. Developed just like I would any other roll film, and it worked just fine. The only glitch I had was that one of my rubber bands was too small, and I put a crease in one sheet of film that left a weird mark after developing. I am going to go to the store with a piece of film in hand to get the right size rubber bands and try again.

All in all a very workable system I think.

[adrian_seward]

I say it's hard to beat tanks and hangers. They're cheap, easy and consistent. You can get

4x5 tanks and hangers fairly cheaply, and depending how much film you process, you can

keep the same chemicals for quite a while (if you get tanks with floating lids).

 

I just keep my tanks full until the chemicals are exhausted. (Replenishing developer is a

little tricky, but fixer lasts quite a while and is easily checked. Stop bath lasts

approximately forever.) That way when I want to develop some film, I just go dunk it.

Nothing to mix or set up. I also don't worry about temperature much-- unless it's really

hot weather, it's always right around 70. My tanks hold 1/2 gallon. If you were mixing

developer fresh for each batch and weren't using all 12 hanger slots, you could mix less

developer and put something in there to take up the extra space.

 

Sitting in the dark for a little while isn't so bad. A gralab 300 is a good timer for this-- the

glowing face won't fog the film.

 

I've tried various different daylight tanks, and had a hard time getting even development.

In many cases it just takes too long to get the chemicals in and out. Drums sound good,

but expensive- and the hangers seem so much simpler. Tray developing would be good,

but I was always too worried about scratches.

[ronald_moravec1]

On sheet in a tray is great. A single 4x5 in an 8/10 tray. Lift two adjacent edges each agitation cycle. Or go r,l,T,bottom. Start with the next side in rotation each cycle and really let the film slosh around emulsion up. Use 1 liter in the 8/10 tray. It will be as good as the the expert drum can do, perfect.

 

Food wrap can be used in place of a floating lid for better results.

 

Fill the Nikor Tank with developer and drop the loaded reel in in the dark. Pouring out doesn`t matter.

 

Absolute best hand process is an Arkay water jacket, three tanks, hangar rack, and hangars. Don`t over agitate. Out, tip 45 deg, right, dunk, out , 45 deg other direction, upright, dunk. Takes 15 sec and then rest 45 sec. Arkay will make this up for you as they made some replacement stuff last month for me. They are in Milwaukee.

 

Rubber tanks will hold 6 hangars, but they are hard to hold as they fan out on the bottom if you hold the tops making reinsertion in the tank difficult. 4 in a 1/2 gal tank is semi ok.

 

Best mechanical process is an expert drum and Jobo processer. Not best for diluted developers as you can`t use enough.

 

I have tried all the above and they all work perfectly with different things to be careful of. Perfect means no agitation patterns.

[silent1]

Long term, I plan to fabricate one or more sheet film reels to fit my large Nikor tank -- probably one for 9x12 and one for 4x5, unless I find a simple way to make them adjustable. I have a piece of ABS sheet around, and ABS glue (somewhere), and lots of ABS tube in a couple sizes; I'm still working on how to prevent the cut edges from scratching film without spending a couple weeks scraping them smooth...

[sandy_king]

"I have a piece of ABS sheet around, and ABS glue (somewhere), and lots of ABS tube

in a couple sizes; I'm still working on how to prevent the cut edges from scratching

film without spending a couple weeks scraping them smooth..."

 

Put some acetone on a rag and rub it over the cut edges. The acetone melts the ABS

plastic and will leave the edges very smooth. Much more effective than sanding,

though you might want to first sand the edges, then use the acetone.

 

I recommend wearing gloves when using acetone as it will remove all of your skin oil

and make your hands very dry and scaly.

 

Sandy

[alec1]

I'll put in a word for tanks and hangers. However, I "kick it up a notch" with nitrogen burst agitation. So, no mess with dip & dunk. Set the burst timer, put the rack [i found a small Arkey rack with gas plenum which fits 4x5 tanks - holds 5 4x5 hangers] and let it go.

 

No mottled negative problems whatsover!

[silent1]

Acetone -- thanks, Sandy, I have a can of that around, too. Okay, as soon as I'm through fixing the bellows in a couple of my folders (Liquid Electrical Tape -- these are for shooting, not for looking at) and get the lens/shutter/board for a 2x3 Century I've been working on shipped, I'll be ready to start work on the sheet film reel.

 

And I thought of a way to make it adjustable -- if I cut the socket portion off a coupler or cap, it will fit very snugly on a piece of the pipe I have; snugly enough, I think, not to require a setscrew (though I could add one if needed, or a spring clip to fit into grooves turned in the core -- either one in stainless, of course). The 1 1/2 inch pipe may be a bit big for a core, though, and the cellular core ABS pipe floats, so I might use PVC for the core (one can buy transition cement specifically for gluing PVC to ABS).

[ken_schroeder]

A third vote for tray processing. Working with 4x5, twelve sheets at a time is no problem. I would guess eight or so would be feasible with 5x7. Working in darkness has never been a problem. I have never noticed an uneven development problem (the "problem" seems to more prevalent with those who really want to buy a jobo). Plenty of solution and careful technique minimize any scratches.