Is Mamiya C220 worth a penny now in the Digital Age?

[ejstark]

Hello friends,

 

One guy offered me to buy his father's Mamiya TLR kit: Mamiya C220 + 3

lenses: 80/3.5, 65/3.5 and 105/3.5 DS.

He said that his father bought the whole kit when he was in Japan in

1970es. Then he shot a couple of rolls and had left the camera in its

case for years.

I expect that the camera is in excellent condition (but I haven't seen

the kit yet so I can't say it exactly).

So, I'd like to ask the visitors of this forum, whether it's worth to

buy this kit? I don't know the price but think I will be around $300-400.

Nevertheless, if I buy the camera, I'll use it as working camera not

the collectible. I've read a lot of information, devoted to the Mamiya

TLR systems (here on this site there is one of them).

But the major reviewers of Mamiya C*** concern that this camera best

fits to the wedding photography, but I'm not the wedding photographer

and surely won't shoot the weddings as commercial photographer.

Photography is my hobby. I already have the 6x6 Kiev 88 TTL system

(Hassy 1001 Russian clone) but I don't like it for its optic, which

hates the counter light and easily catches flares. In the reviews of

the Mamiya system there are a lot of words, describing the high

quality of Mamiya lenses, their sharpness and plastic. BTW, the major

owners of Mamiya C*** wrote their reviews late 1990es, before the

attack of the digital age. Maybe now this camera lost it's advantages

as a "working horse" for the photograher? So what will be your opinions?

 

Regards, Erick.

[victor_lioce]

This is a great camera. Regardless of whether or not you plan to do digital imagry, you will get years of service out of it. I owned one of these and used it for years. It is a great back packing camera as long as you aren't carrying a lot of "extras" with it! It is very light weight for a 120 format camera. You can still get plenty of accessories for it and there are few draw backs to it. It does require you to manually cock the shutter as advancing the film does only that, advance the film. It does not have the parallex indicator that the C33 and C330 models have built in. It has a rotating pressure plate to allow you to switch from 120 to 220. It does not have a removable back like the 33 and 330 models. Other than that, the only question is the lenses. Those that are chrome are likely to have a bit more flare than their black counterparts because of differences or lack of multi-coating depending on their age. Also, open the lenses and hold them up to a bright light and check for fungus in between the lens elements. If they are still clean you should be fine. If they aren't, you can try placing the lenses, stopped wide open, in direct, bright sunlight to "burn" the fungus out. Check the felts that line the back and body to ensure they haven't shrunk and produce light leaks. A simple test with a roll of high Exposure Index transparency film (i.e. 400 or higher) loaded and placed in bright light and firing and advancing with the lens caps on will tell the tale on the status of these. Give some time between frame advances. I think you will be very happy with the camera if it is in as good shape as you suspect. $300-400 is probably the maximum I would pay as the camera is already more than 25 years old even though it has seen little use. If all of the lenses are black and not chrome then you would be getting a "very fair" deal at that price range. Good luck!

[dean_williams]

If you're going to use this as a working camera, as you say, you shouldn't be concerned with the film/digital thing. (Actually, there is no film/digital "thing" except in peoples' minds. If you like film, use it. Same for digital. Use both if you like 'em both).

<p>

It seems that you know what this camera is, and that it uses film. If you are going to use film for your photography, then the digital question shouldn't even come into it.

<p>

This camera has all the advantages it came with when new. Large negs and a complete system of high quality items.

As far as the lenses go, they are very good. The body is just a box to hold the lenses, but in this case, a very well built box. For a price compairison check out KEH for the same items. If it seems like a good deal, and you want it, get it.

<p>

Digital didn't attack...;>)

<p>

Try a lens shade on your Kiev, if you don't have one already.

[pavelp]

Assuming the lenses are in good shape, the price is fine. Try to bargain towards the lower end and ask for a trial period if you decide to buy. BTW, I don't think there's 80/3.5 lens. It's either 80/2.8 (excellent lens) or 80/3.7 (not worth much, try to bargain). Thinking about it, why don't you ask your friend to let you use the camera for a weekend so you can see how it's gonna work for you?

 

Mamiya TLR is quite flexible 6x6 system. It used to be favored by wedding photographers but its use is not limited to weddings. The optics are sharp and contrasty (always use the hood), tones and colors are very smooth. The quality is not an issue.

 

It will do almost anything that your Kiev does and then some more. You will not have TTL viewing, so filters/polarizers/grads use will be associated with certain level of inconvenience. Mamiya is leaf-shutter system, so the flash will sync at all speeds and there's no black out when the flash fires (once you get used to this, it's difficult to go back). For action shooting, get a prism and then there's little difference between Kiev and Mamiya TLR. No interchangeable backs though.

[rick_gerbehy1]

Great camera......I learned to use it while a yearbook photographer over 30 years ago. All the lenses were OK...but the 65mm wide was exceptional. Check the bellows if it has been stored for that long.

[robert_reiss]

I bought a c330 as my entry into medium format. The problem was, of 4 lenses I bought (admittedly of an auction site), 2 needed cleaning and lubrication to work. This adds about $100 to the cost of the lens. I would make sure the shutters are operating well at all shutter speeds repeatedly. However, I still think it is a cool camera to play with.

 

I would recommend considering a bronica sqa or sqai. Same format. Lenses are very good. Speed grip makes hand holding much easier (although you could be a grip for the Mamiya, too). Probably not much more money and more expandable in terms of accessories.

[roger krueger]

The big remaining advantage for a TLR over an SLR is that having neither a moving mirror

nor a focal plane shutter it doesn't jump when you shoot, and is thus handholdable at

much lower speeds. It's also very quiet. I'm pretty sure these lenses are single coated, so

there won't be any improvement in flare performance vs. the Kiev.

[jose f.]

You didn't say what you plan to shoot with it. That's a more than fair price if everything is in good working order.

 

It's a fine set-up for portraits and landscapes; we used to used them with big Strobonar flashes to shoot rodeo because the leaf shutter would sync at 1/125 and 1/250, and all the tolerances were loose enough to blow out the dust with a couple pounds of air pressure ;-).

 

If it has been sitting, you will probably want someone to clean up the shutter lubrication and be sure the speeds are accurate. Construction quality is much better than the Kiev.

 

You should check your area for the availability of rollfilm processing/printing, unless you plan to do your own.

[mike_elek]

Dean -- that's what I was going to say. If you plan to shoot film, it's an excellent camera. If you plan on shooting only digital, then I wouldn't buy it.

[todd_k.]

Regarding lens coatings and lens flare. The older lenses with the brownish coatings may or may not be multi-coated. However all the newer lenses with the purple/blue coatings are multi-coated. The 105 DS (a great lens) is without a doubt multi-coated and by itself is worth over $200 depending on the condition.

Good Luck,

Todd K.

[david dutchison]

You should be aware that there is no DOF preview on the 80mm & 65mm lenses (I thought Mamiya might have made one with an aperature in the viewing lens, perhaps it's the 105, but I'm not sure). If that's not an issue with the kind of shots you do, then I think you'll really like this kit. It's also a very hand-holdable MF.

[siu_fai_au1]

If you make a hobby out of shooting directly into the sun and don't like pentacon shape reflection than you should avoid the Mamiya. I have a C330 with four lensen (55mm - 180mm Super) and love it. But the lenses are prone for lensflare, in particular when shooting directly into the sun. The drawback of the TLR design is that you cannot see the effect, hence there is no ways to judge whether this is a bother or not. With a SLR, you can stop down and change the framing a little to put the pentagons on a place that is less annoying. Nevertheless, the Mamiya is great for general purpose. The lenses just don't like being lit directly ;-)

 

If you do shoot the sun a lot than you need mutli coated lenses. I have a good experience with the Rollei HFT coatings. A Rolleiflex SLX standaard set is quite affordable.

[pavelp]

DOF preview (and selftimer as well) is only available on the 105DS lens. There's also DOF rotary calculator on the <a href=http://www.glasseyeproductions.org/ebpix/105ds/index.html>105DS lens</a> (I find the calculator more useful than the DOF preview). <br><br>

 

About the coatings: I've had about 20 different lenses for Mamiya TLR go through my hands (including the latest black 80/2.8S) and I've seen different colors of coatings (brown, yellow, purple, pinkish brown, brownish purple, golden). However, if I look at the reflection of highlights in any Mamiya TLR lens, each of them has only single color highlights. This is different from say RB 90/3.8C lens, which is definitely multicoated and shows at least three or four different colors of highlights. I am not convinced that there ever was a multicoated Mamiya TLR lens (different coatings yes, but in my opinion they are all single layer coatings).

[ejstark]

Hello friends,

 

Thank you all for your opinions and advices! They are very useful for me.

My plans are to use the camera basically as travel medium format system and also sometimes to make portraits.

I really don't know what to do. $300-400 are good money to spend them the other way (e.g. to buy good lenses for my Kiev 88).

But, I think that with Kiev 88 optics I cannot reach the quality of Hassy optics, but with Mamiya optic such aim is more reachable, how do you think?

As for my aims, I need something light, but with the great optic. You know, each lens makes its own picture, sometimes the picture is beautiful (sharp or soft, good plastic, beautiful bokeh), sometimes not ("dirty" and sluggish). Did any of you compared the final pictures got from the Mamiya lens and the pictures made by other (Rollei, Hassy, etc.) lenses?

[ejstark]

As to the "Digital Age"...

I have small Canon A75 and think that it's enough for me nowadays. :-)

[pavelp]

<i>Did any of you compared the final pictures got from the Mamiya lens and the pictures made by other (Rollei, Hassy, etc.) lenses?</i><br><br>

 

Ten different people will give you ten different answers to this question (if not more). Why don't take the camera and lenses for spin and see whether it is something you want to spend your money on? It's better to lose $10 in film than sink $400 in a camera that you may not like at all but you bought it because somebody on the INTERNET told you that it's the best camera ever.

[calvin_lee]

Erick, I have owned all of the following medium format cameras at some point in time: Hasselblad 503cw, Rollei 6008 Integral, Rolleiflex 2.8FX, Contax 645, Mamiya RZ67 Pro II, Mamiya RB67 ProSD, Mamiya 645 Super, Mamiya 645 1000s, Mamiya Super 23, Mamiya 330f, Bronica SQ-Ai, Bronica ETRSi, Fuji GA645Zi, Pentacon Six TL, Kiev 60, Kiev 88, Seagull TLR, & Flexaret VII TLR. Having owned & used all of these cameras has given me quite an opportunity to compare images shot with these various cameras & their lenses.

 

From my experience with the Mamiya C330f, I was extremely impressed with the 65mm lens. The 180mm Super is also very good, but you will definately need to use a lens hood if you are pointing the camera anywhere near the sun in order to avoid flare. I found this lens particularly prone to flare. The 105DS is also very good, although I did not really use that focal length all that much. The 55mm, 80mm, 135mm, & 250mm were good, but did not impress me the way the other three lenses did. All of my lenses were the latest versions in all-black finish. But among the 65mm, 105mm, & 180mm, I would say that the 65mm is the best, as it just really knocked my socks off. Tremendous sharpness & excellent colour balance. If you buy the Mamiya TLR, you would definately want to get that lens. It is one not to be missed. That lens is as good or better than any Zeiss or Schneider lens that I have used.

[ejstark]

Thank you all for the answers. I'll try to take the camera from the owner and shoot a couple rolls of the film.

 

Regards, Erick.

[digital_provenance]

The sharp lenses and large negative size are precisely what gives this camera an advantage over all but professional grade digital cameras. You will never get as sharp or resolved an image on a consumer grade camera as a well focused, exposed, and processed image from the Mamiya. And you can always scan the Mamiya negative or print to take advantage of all that digital offers. Another plus is that a well-processed and stored negative will easily outlast a digital image and not require a single migration or upgrade to stand prepared to output a sharp print in 25 or 50 or 100 years.

[bigrue]

Hello Erick, I have own my Mamiya c220 camera since the 80s. The only I had check out and repair is the back. The photgraphs I have gotten from shooting with it has been wonderful. As far as comparing it to digital, that is a personal thing. I have not gone digital because I am not sold on the product or the imagines. What ever you pay for it is worth the penny. Find a good repair shop for it to be overhaul.

Rufus watson, Jr.