How Many Formals Do You Allow?

[stevensimages]

I'm curious how other photographers handle the question of how many

wedding day formals is too many. I have been very flexible about this

up until now, but I've had two weddings in a row that wanted well

over 30 different group shots. Fortunately, I tend to work fairly

quickly, but I find that having that many poses, some of which

include 10 or even 20 people, end up creating a time crunch.

That time crunch in turn makes everybody more tense, and increases

the chances of my making a mistake with exposure values, not to

mention that small details (bra straps showing, ties that need

straightening, jackets that bunch up unattractively, etc.) tend to

get overlooked in the rush. This ratchets up my stress level

immensely.

Prior to now, I have been giving clients a list of typical shots and

I encourage them to give me a list of groups or other shots (the

rings, the cake, the bouquets, etc.) that they want to make sure that

I get.

As far as all the reception shots, there's no problem, but with the

formal poses, like I said, it becomes problematic when they want too

many different combinations and poses. Thus, I am seriously

considering putting a hard limit on how many formals I'm willing to

do.

I'm primarily a PJ style shooter, but I understand that formals are

also important to most couples and I take the quality of those

formals very seriously.

SO, do any of the rest of you put hard limits on the number of posed

formals you're willing to do and how do you extablish this with your

clients so there is no misunderstanding or disappointment on their

part?

[awahlster]

I thought what you do was up to the customer not up to you. The wedding I'm doing this weekend 42 formal shots are scheduled in a 1.5 hour period. If we get them done depends on the guests and wedding party members. I always start with the most important and work in an additive or subtective way to get as many done in the time allowed. If they screw around well then They screwed around. If they move smoothly then no problem.

[blueworldstudios]

We encourage all of our local competition to limit the number of formals they will 'allow'

the bride and groom to take.

 

Meanwhile, although formals are rarely the most important part of the day for our clients,

we let the B&G decide how many they would like, and give them a guidline as to how much

time it will take. We average around 30 different groupings.

 

We are also PJ shooters, with the formals comprising 98% of the posed shots for the day.

[stevensimages]

That is true, the customer's opinion is important, but most of the time, they do not have (and cannot have) 1.5 hours built into the schedule for formals. If I can get them to schedule that much time, then it's fine. That gives you an average of just over 2 minutes per pose, which, in my experience is just enough to get folks in place and sqeeze off 3 or 4 frames.

So, how do you handle it when they want to do a long list of photos between the wedding and the reception, and they don't want to keep the guests waiting too long at the reception, so they want to schedule no more than 30 minutes?

Don't misunderstand me, by the way. If a couple gives me a list of 50 shots, I'm not going to just say "No way, forget it!" I'm going to let them know that X number of photos will take Y minutes to shoot and if they only have Y-45 minutes, we're going to need to trim something somewhere. I do think that having a set policy and telling couples up front what that policy is, is the best way to go.

I know that some photographers sem to give their clients a list of dos and don'ts a mile long and expect the customer to conform to them. I'm not like that, but I do think that some guidelines make sense and it's more about telling the customer what they can realistically expect than about giving them a laundry list of stuff that I don't or won't do.

I do believe that the customer is the most important thing, but sometimes, the best thing you can do for a customer is to tell them that perhaps another photographer would be more suited to their needs. I mean what do you do if you're a PJ type shooter and a customer says, "your pictures are great, but at my wedding, I don't want all these shots of people not looking at the camera. It's like they're not even posed at all!" I feel the same way about people who want 50 plus formals and they only have 45 minutes to do it.

So, this is going to be a policy of mine, and I'm curious if others have gone about this in a particular way that is customer friendly.

[stevensimages]

" . . .we let the B&G decide how many they would like, and give them a guidline as to how much time it will take. We average around 30 different groupings."

 

You hit the nail on the head about giving them a guideline. Communication is the heart of any successful relationship, whether it's with your spouse or a customer. But. What do you do when they want 30 groupings in a time frame that doesn't realistically allow it?

[blueworldstudios]

I don't know how much pre-wedding planning you go through with your clients, but we

manage the time problem by establishing a formals shot list before the wedding. It's

during this planning that we can tell the B&G how much time it will take, and let them

decide if that's time they want to spend.

 

We have had plenty of people who then allocated a few hours for shooting, and others that

cut the number of formals way back to fit in a certain amount of time. If you take this

approach, the client feels like they are in control, and you won't be pulling your hair out on

the wedding day. (At least not because of this issue.)

[blueworldstudios]

" But. What do you do when they want 30 groupings in a time frame that doesn't

realistically allow it?"

 

Well, that's when you just have to tell them that it's unrealistic. Learning to 'Manage your

clients expectations' is a delicate skill. We let people know all the things that tend to go

wrong, and that trying to shoot an unrealistic number of shots will compromise the quality

of the shots.

 

Make a list of the things that have caused problems in the past, and just talk to the client

about them. If they are reasonable, they''ll get it. If they are un-reasonable, you have

bigger problems.

[bill_knippenberg1]

Chad,

Yes, communication and pre-wedding planning are important. It

seems that as long as the B&G are present at the formals

reception activities will not advance so you will not miss much.

With this in mind, I'm reminded of the contract threads in PN

where several photographers outlined there overtime prices

which may preclude extensive formals in the planning stage or at

the wedding.

[mark_jacoby___raleigh__nc]

We also leave it up to the couple but warn them up front that while we are taking the formals the guests are at the reception cooling their heels. So we aim at 30 minutes for formals.

 

We get the bride set up with her gown fanned out and rotate the other members of the wedding party around her. 30 minutes.

 

I don't mind the formals since my assistant does all the posing work and I just shoot.

[stevensimages]

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Good points were made by all. Actually, EJ, you convinced me not to put the policy as I stated it in writing for the customer. The policy will still exist in my head, basically that, like Mark, I would prefer to shoot for about 30 minutes max, which basically puts us at about a 15 pose limit. Then, if they want more, we can discuss the effects of a really long list. I'm still inclined to draw a firm line if they aren't willing to allow sufficient time to cover their list properly.

Fortunately, my contract already covers me in case photos are missed due to failures of punctuality or cooperation on the part of the wedding party and other photographees.

 

Again, thanks for your input, everybody! :o)

[rich_dutchman1]

Just to let you know, the formals have the most print sales (and frame sales), at least for me. So, the more they pose, the more you might make.

[wedding-photography-denver]

I offer to shoot how ever many they would like. I then go on to explain that it takes an average of a few minutes per shot/group. Normally people want 1.5 hours or less of formals so that means about 30-40 shots/groups.

 

It really heips if you decide on the spot you will use then meter the light and set up one time. For the B&G shots, I take wahtever time they like and try to do that after the others have gone on ahead.

 

To avoid the dissapointment syndrome, I tell them after about 1 hour of time shooting formals that we ought to think about wrapping up soon and were there any more that they *really* want before we stop. I never plan to shoot any at the reception.

 

Thats how I like it at least.

[derek_c.]

I find no reason for stress.<br>

You get paid, you take pictures... end of story for me.<br>

I guess over 100 formal shots are too much.<br>

I never count formal shots... I just take pictures.<br>

I really don't care if I take too little or too much formals.<br>

I get paid, and I take pictures, whatever they want, end of story.

[nicola_grimshaw_mitchell]

Before people book me they read the blurb on my website. This states - in a friendly manner - that I specialise in informal shots, I will of course take some formals but prefer to keep these to a minimum (6 or so). I say if they are wanting a more traditional coverage of their wedding then maybe I am not the best photographer for them. It has not harmed my booking credentials at all and people seem to like the fact they wont have to stand around for ages. This suits me as I HATE FORMALS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Good luck!

 

Nicola

[stevensimages]

Nicola gets it! Derek, not so much! :o)

 

Derek, I'm happy for you that shooting is a stress free experience, and while I would never say or imply that you don't care about your clients' reactions to your work, I do feel that when I get stressed, it is because I am seriously concerned about doing the best possible job for my clients, and up to a point, a little nervousness is good for the creative energy. But don't get the idea that I am a hyperserious type on the job. The clients and guests never know that I am stressed, because during the formals, I'm constantly joking, cajoling, directing, adjusting and firing away. Then, after the formals, I'm a ghost on the sidelines.

[cjogo]

Probably nearly 70% of my day is formal(or semi) --We usually shoot about 2 hours before the ceremony and 1/2 hour after. And follow out the remaining 2 hours of candids.

[mark_jacoby___raleigh__nc]

It has been said by someone more experienced and wiser than me, that if you have a really great shot of the B&G then they will be forgiving of the rest of your shots.

 

But if you don't have a great shot of the B&G you can't make up for it if all the other pics are excellent.

 

And from my own experience (despite my 30 minutes rule of thumb)I make sure there are plenty of poses of the B&G to pick from.

[jewan_runhaar]

I really don't get why people hate formals. Everybody says that it is unnatural, but i think the whole wedding is unnatural. During formals you are able to come up with something that really suits the B+G. Take them to places they are familiar with or mean something to them and make pictures they want. On top of that they do almost whatever you want them to. I don't see any problem in that.

I love searching for a nice place to shoot the formals. If possible with the B+G.

[jewan_runhaar]

ah forgot to mention that i love PJ style for the rest of the day.