HP Designjet 130 vs Chromira Prints

[william_yu]

I was waiting for the Epson R1800, but deep in my heart I long for a

wider printer without the bronzing issue of UC inks. So I am looking

at the HP Designjet 130. I am debating whether I should buy the HP

Designjet 130 and have controls over the process, or buy the smaller

and less expensive Epson R1800 and outsource big prints to a lab

doing Chromira prints. Anybody can comment, or compare between print

quality from HP Designjet 130 to Chromira?

 

Thanks,

 

William

[carl_durrenberger]

One other option is to wait for the wider (13x19) versions of the HP 8400-series printers. They are to be referred as the 8700-series.

 

The first models should ship in about a month and give you 9-color, dye-based printing with tightly-controlled 5-ng dropweight. When used with a swellable gelatin media (as opposed to a porous ceramic media), the HP inks should actually outlive pigmented inks used in a porous media.

 

I think the MSRP is going to be around $500-600 USD.

 

The 9 inks include 2 levels of grey and photo black, enabling nice black and white output. Also, there's a blue channel in one of the cartridges which is supposed to extend the printer's gamut to more accurately reproduce sky and water tones.

 

Overall, it could be a compelling alternative to the more-expensive HP 130 and the larger-throat Epson offerings. Check it out.

[constance_cook]

Carl:

 

It's on the HP site at $499.

 

Conni

[thomas_kolbo]

If you want a printer that is going to give you a format wide enough for "art prints" at least 16x20 check out HP's site for the new HP Designjet 90/r. This unit should be available sometime this spring and can be fitted with an 18" wide roll stock feeder or print 18"x24" from a feed slot(can't recall whether it is from front or back). It will also print down to 4x6 format.

 

This new unit uses a 6 ink deliverysystem but uses HP's new Vivera inks which are supposed to be much purer (in terms of chemical formulation) and even more resistant to fading coupled with their papers (satin is the best). The inks used on this unit are the same Vivera type used for the new 8750 9 ink unit as noted in an earelier response to your post. You can also go to a UK site called Photo-i and see initial reviews of both printers. I would think by the slightly smaller size of format, the 90/r whould be priced somewhere between the Designjet 30 and 130 ($699 - $1295) for a base model. Time will tell.

 

Another interesting feature for the 90/r is its self calibration mode "closed loop calibrating" which I think is now separated as a functional process from having to have a RIP installed first such as is necessary with the Designjet 130. I could be wrong, but you might want to go to HP's site and download the pdf file on this unit and check it out. There is also a white paper avaiable that discusses the Vivera inks as well.

 

I am waiting for this one to be coupled with the new Minolta 5400II scanner....should be worth the wait (about one more month).

[photom]

Carl, what is the difference between the HP 8400/8700 and the HP 30? They sound about the same and the same price range. Both have good archive properties with swellable paper. HP 30 out now with same basics as HP 130, but 13 x 19 max.

[mattb1]

I think the 8750 uses a couple of gray inks, it would be great if you like that format. The DJ 30 is just a 13x19 version of the DJ 130. The DJ90 sounds good as well, but 24 inch wide is great.

 

The output of the DJ130 is stunning. I have never made a Chromira print, so I can't give an opinion on a comparison between the two. However, the dye inks in the DJ 130 blow away the UC inks of Epson. If you like the limited gamut of the UC inks, then the Epson is the better choice because of the expected life of the UC inks. However, longevity is no longer a reason to go with a limited gamut. The DJ 130's print life is on par with lightjet prints and beyond.

 

I have had my DJ130 for about three months now. While it does take a lot of work to find and get a photo that can be printed large, the results IMO are spectacular. I have printed more large photos than I thought I would, and I have printed more B&W successfully than I have ever been able to do before. The 3rd party media choices will expand soon, the swell able technology has been around for a very long time.

 

The DJ 130 does have some quirks, but nothing frustrating and debilitating like a clogged head that the Epsons get.

 

IMHO there is no choice, the Epsons just don't cut it with the UC inks.

[carl_durrenberger]

The designjet series are 6-color (KCMY+LM+LC) printing systems with 4-ng dropweight; the wider-throat 8000-series are 9-color systems with 5-ng dropweight (they add two levels of grey for B&W and the new blue ink channel to achieve 9 colors total). The difference in dropweight is practically negligible with respect to performance. Both platforms use different specific inksets within the Vivera class.

 

The printhead architectures are fundamentally different, as they were designed for two fundamentally different usage models. The 8000-series uses disposable printheads designed for the intermittant-use, low-throughput customer. You use up the ink in any one of the 3 channels of any given cartridge and you throw it away and buy a new one. If you print a lot of photos, you could go through a lot of disposable cartridges fast because you only get around 15mL of ink per cartridge -- or around 5 mL of ink PER COLOR per cartridge, as there are 3 colors in each cartridge. But if you are a weekend warrior enthhusiast, you might not change out a cartridge for months, meaning that after a year of low-use printing, you'd probably need to change out cartidges anyway (due to time-based failure mechanisms).

 

The designjet series uses specially-designed printheads that are engineered and tested for liters (as opposed to mL's) of usage-based reliability. They have externally-plumbed ink supplies that hold between 28 and 69 mL of ink of EACH COLOR (as opposed to around 5 ml). As you use up your ink, you just change out the individual ink tanks, leaving the expensive, high-performance printhead intact. After going through many tanks (hundreds of ML per color), you might start to get reliability failure issues on the printhead (nozzles out, misdirected nozzles, banding) which you can fix by replacing it yourself. It is designed to be a user-serviceable system unlike Epson's.

 

Because the printswath of the designjet printers is nearly 1/2-inch tall (quite a bit taller than that of the disposable cartridges), you also get significantly faster throughput compared to the 8000 series. Go look at the specs and you'll see that print speed is measured in pages per minute for the designjet and MINUTES PER PAGE for the 8000-series (!).

 

In terms of image quality, I haven't compared the 2 systems side-by-side. I would imagine that, quite frankly, they are very comparable, with an edge going to the 8000 if you wish to print B&W or a lot of blue-laden scenes. But not a big edge; I've been consistently stunned by how awesome the 30/130/90 series output looks.

 

It's mostly a trade-off between acquisition cost, operating cost, and throughput. If you print a couple large photos a week, then the 8000 is probably the better choice. If you're a working photog who needs to crank out hundreds of photos a week, I'd think your usage model better fits the designjet series of printers. If your clients absolutely MUST have pigmented ink output (becuase they're stuck in an obsolete mindset around porous media and archivability), then get an Epson.

[photom]

Carl thanks for the great detail as it can be rather confusing. I am looking forward to seeing the final street price of the Dj 90, which I think might be a good fit for me.

[william_yu]

Tom:

 

Per photo-i.co.uk, the street price in Europe is equal to about more than $900.

[don_baccus]

"Another interesting feature for the 90/r is its self calibration mode "closed loop calibrating" which I think is now separated as a functional process from having to have a RIP installed first such as is necessary with the Designjet 130."

 

Actually the DesignJet 30/130 both support the closed loop calibrating in the driver, as well as the RIP.

 

However, the RIP's now selling for $10 so from a cost point-of-view it's a moot point.

 

Likewise the "Vivera ink" designation is "just marketing", i.e. the new DesignJet 90 uses the exact same carts as the DesignJet 30/130, it's just that the cute marketing name wasn't dreamed up in time to be used during last year's introduction of the 30/130.

 

For all practical purposes, the DesignJet 90 appears to be a skinny version of the 130, taking 18" rather than 24" wide paper.

[jonathan_gentry]

One point to consider is that the 130 has a paper cutter for rolls and the 90 does not. I think the 130 is a much better deal.

[j_robinson2]

Epson has sent me a sample print from the new 8750. It is on glossy paper. When viewing it I get a 'veiled' look much like RC paper prints have had. Not something I like. The print is excellent but when viewed right the veiling doesn't help at all.

 

Also, do they make a paper (glossy especialy) without the HP logo all over the back. It ruins it for backprinting information.

 

With the 30/90/130 designjet series, is there any 'veiling' or 'haze' on the print as you look at it from different angles? (the glossy papers)