20D ISO performance vs lens speed

[ozone42]

I'm about to purchase as 20D and I know what my initial kit will be

with one exception: my "indoor/lowlight" lens. I'm a big fan of low

light candid shots--no flashes. Friends sitting around in a pub, etc.

 

I'm on a tight budget. Initially I thought this was a no-brainer.

The 50mm f1.8 is so cheap and good it's almost crazy NOT to have one.

I've been saving for a while so I've had nothing to do but

overanalyze my selections. I began wondering if the 50mm with the 1.6

crop would be a bit too long for comfort in a lot of situations. The

alternative was pretty clear, the 28mm f2.8.

 

I've seen a lot of examples of the excellent quality, low-noise,

high-iso images from the 20D so I'm begining to think I should go

ahead and get the 28mm, and wait a bit then pick up the 50mm f1.4

later after I've replenished my camera budget some.

 

What do you think? What are your experiences using high ISO's with

slower lenses on the 20D (not that 2.8 is "slow" per se.) Examples

with apeture/shutter speed/iso listed would be greatly appreciated.

[jonathan_cook]

Think about viewfinder brightness. If you can do what you want with an f2.8, go for it. Personally, I love the 50mm f1.4.

[beauh44]

Hi Alex, You can "get away with murder" (very high ISO values) with the 20D - especially if you pick up a copy of Neat Image or Noise Ninja. ISO 1600 is no sweat at all. And with the above-mentioned software to help, ISO 3200 is absolutely do-able. Good luck!

[bestactionshots]

How about 17-40L lens? It's a good one for better wide angle if everyone is close for a group shot.

[wgpinc]

To me this is a no-brainer. The best bang for the buck in the normal range (1.6 crop) for Canon digital is the 35mm 2.0 (56mm equiv.). Sharper and/or faster than the 24/28mm alternatives (except the L 1.4). It is the walk around lens on my dRebel. My kit for digital or film is 20mm 2.8, 35mm 2.0, 50 macro, 85mm 1.8 & 70-200 4.0. Good luck.

[west_cork]

35mm 2.0 - great lens.

Then get the 50 1.4 later.

 

I use both these, also use a 135/2.0 indoors quite a lot at 2.0

 

1600 ASA looks like 400 ASA film,

3200 ASA is also pretty good<div></div>

[west_cork]

central crop, full scale<div></div>

[west_cork]

Gil,

 

how do you get on with the 20mm 2.8 lens - It's probably going to be my next lens for use on my 20d to replace the 35mm on film (until Canon bring out an EFS 22mm 2.0 or something like it).

 

Funny, I loved the 35mm 2.0 on film, and still love it on the 20D. Same with the 135mm 2.0.

 

Never really got on with the 50mm 1.4 on film, but it's an amazing indoor candid portrait lens with the 20D.

[kraig_cuddeford]

lense speed has a big effect on exposure brightness and amount of noise at ISO 1600 with the 20D. I just took some photo's with three different lenses at ISO 1600 1/50th shutter speed using only available light:

 

18-55 EFS kit lens at 30mm F4 at 1/50th.

50mm f1.8 at 1/50th

55mm f1.2 at 1/50th

 

The 30mm F4 exposure was too dark at 1/50th. It needed a big level adjustment to brighten it up, it shows considerable noise levels at ISO 1600 and would need noise reduction.

 

The 50mm f1.8 exposure was too dark at 1/50th and provided less field of view compared to the 30mm f4 exposure. It needed less of a level adjustment to brighten it up compared to the 30mm f4 exposure. The 50mm F1.8 exposure shows slightly less noise compared to the 30mm F4 exposure. It would also need noise reduction. f1.8 has less Depth Of Focus compared to the 30mm f4 exposure.

 

The 55mm f1.2 exposure did not need any level adjustments at 1/50th, it shows almost no noise at ISO 1600. The 55mm f1.2 exposure has much less field of view compared to the 30mm f4 exposure and slightly less field of view compared to the 50mm F1.8 exposure. Naturally it has very shallow DOF, much less DOF than the 50mm f1.8 exposure.<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

less fov, dof and noise :P<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

last one<div></div>

[jim_larson1]

What is your budget?

 

The 50/1.8 is $70, the 28/2.8 is what, $180ish?

 

Is "both" not a viable option? These lenses will complement each other well. The 50 and 28 are not really used for the same things. If given a choice of only "one" lens, I would do the 28/2.8, as the wider perspective is more suitable for indoor shooting.

 

Of course, without knowing what your other lenses are, it is a bit hard to pick one over the other. If your other lenses are the 17-40/4L and 70-200/4L, then you clearly need the 50/1.8.

 

Conversely, if you are getting the 18-55 kit lens I would opt for the 28 for both quality and low light performance. A 17-85/IS gives you low light performance but not quality. With this lens, I might opt for the 50/1.8 as a portrait lens.

[kraig_cuddeford]

As for getting away with it. The following are 100% crops before and after noise reduction.

[kraig_cuddeford]

canon EFS 18-55 at 30mm f4.0 ISO 1600 1/50th<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

RE EFS 18-55 30mm f4 ISO 1600 1/50th<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

zuiko 50mm f1.8 ;) ISO 1600 1/50th<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

50mm f1.8 ISO 1600 1/50th 100% crop<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

zuiko 55mm f1.2 ;) ISO 1600 1/50th<div></div>

[kraig_cuddeford]

55mm f1.2 ISO 1600 1/50th 100% crop<div></div>

[ozone42]

Thanks Everyone, especially Kraig. Those are fabulous examples of exactly what I was looking for. I hadn't seen a discussion on apeture vs noise levels, but I didn't think to search for that specific combo.

[kraig_cuddeford]

It's not as much related to aperture as it is "exposure" the 20D has remarkable image quality when it gets the light it needs but if it doesn't quite get enough, you can fudge it with levels and noise reduction. Besides that, it's a matter of practicality when shooting indoors in crouded places or what not, you don't have much room to use a tripod. Your limmited by shutter speed more than anything.

[don_baccus]

To clarify what Kraig's saying, he's saying that with the slower lens, shooting at the same shutter speed, he's in film terms pushing the image and that he's finding the 20D holds up to this pushing (or "camera abuse" :) quite well.

 

Kraig, why not shoot at 3200 and let the camera give you that extra stop rather than shoot at 1600 and raise levels yourself?

[peufeu]

What noise reduction software did you use ? It looks good !

[sean_mclennan]

Just to add a comment to K's samples...they are taken at 1/50th...if you want to hand-hold your shots in a pub let's say, I'd think you'd really need to shoot faster than that..at least 1/60...preferrably 1/80...just my thoughts...

 

Bottom line, the 20D has probably the best ISO range and low light performance. For a lens, anything below 2.8 will work, so it's really a matter of how wide you want/need. From you're comments, I'd say the 28/2.8 would be perfect. Of course, the 50 1.8 is dirt cheap too ;-)

 

sean

[kraig_cuddeford]

Pierre, both neat image and noise ninja are good programs, I'm currently playing with the trial version of neat image, that is what I used on those crops. I'll have to try iso 3200, mainly I just like to move the sliders and watch the image come into light, sort of reminds me of dropping a latent into developer...