Fotoman cameras

[peder_mansson]

I?m looking for equipment that will give me 6x12 images. The

Horseman SW 612 (Pro) is an obvious candidate, but it?s expensive

and very rare second hand. Doesn?t seem to be popular at all?! A

view camera with RFH is another choice and then I came across the

Fotoman www.fotomancamera.com at about USD 1500.

Has anybody used it?

[will_legge]

They are very new cameras and there are very few reports. Ross

Wordwood has a 6x17 Fotoman, but he is waiting on a lens - not

included in the price BTW. He left a post here at Photo.net.

 

But there are plenty of 6x12 cameras. Have you looked at widepan.com?

That is a rotating lens camera and about the same price as the

Fotoman and it comes with a lens. It takes both 120 and 220 film as

well as 35mm with an adapter.

 

But 6x12 cameras are rare on ebay and expensive. A Horseman SW612

(without shifts) with 65mm or 45mm lens go for around $3,000 dollars

on ebay. The Fotoman cameras do look promising. But in this type of

camera, each has their querks. Badger Graphics is the distributor in

the US and I believe Robert White is the European distributor.

[majid]

You can use a 6x12 rollfilm back on a 4x5 view camera. As a side bonus, this will also give you full movements. Calumet Photo (Cambo) makes one for $740.

[roger_hicks1]

Dear Peder,

 

Yes, I have used a loaner picked up at photokina to do a magazine review. It had a 'tool shop' or 'prototype' feel (which is understandable as the one I have is a prototype) and this is fine by me: a well made, basic piece of kit.

 

Put it this way: I wouldn't regard it as fair to try to blag the camera AND LENS off them, but when the review is done I plan on asking how much they want for the body and a cone (with press discount!), and I'll stick one of my own lenses on.

 

This may sound corrupt but believe me, I don't want to keep kit that doesn't work and writing for the photo press pays so badly I need all the discounts I can get -- and I don't regard it as ethical to sell free/heavily discounted kit so anything I get cheap or free, I'm going to keep or use.

 

Alas Contax couldn't do a price I could afford. Stunning kit though.

 

Cheers,

 

Roger (www.rogerandfrances.com)

[george_jiri_loun]

Each time there is a talk about 6x12, 6x17 roll film cameras there is the same comment by someone - go and crop your 4x5, 5x7 images! With all the respect,anybody making these comments doesn't understand anything from photography with roll film cameras. Their main advantage

- the speed and the ease of use - makes them irreplacable with any view camera, using a sheet film. The whole concept of photography is different with both types of cameras - fortunately so.

[paul.droluk]

Here's the earlier thread from Ross Wordhouse... (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-

fetch-msg?msg_id=00AaDf) Our cameras are now just making it into the marketplace, so

reports should start trickling in. The list price for the 612 is 1249.95 USD.

[majid]

George, I was not advocating using sheet film and cropping (I use a Fuji G617 myself). But some companies like Horseman and Calumet/Cambo sell adapters that take 120 or 220 roll film and plug into a view camera as if they were sheet film carriers. The resulting camera will be bulkier than a panoramic medium format camera, but it will have movements, and will be significantly cheaper than a GX617, a Linhof or a Horseman.

[jonathan_james]

I have one of the widepan 140 swing lens cameras. I have only put two films through it so far, but I am hugely impressed simply with the build quality. For the price you are getting a very serious professional camera with a very useful range of view. Prices are good and the camera gives what to the purist is the only true panoramic perspective. <p>

 

You do still have to get used to the apparent distortion inherent in swing lens cameras, but this is really due to the fact that the human brain is a far finer processor than any camera - it compensates for the different distances objects are from the lens of the eye where a camera cannot.<p>

 

I can arrange for a widepan at rather less than $1500 and have every confidence that you will have no complaints about reliability and build. Email me if you are interested - jonathancj@blueyonder.co.uk.

[ilkka]

I wanted to buy one but could not agree with the factory about price. I live in China and have got quite reasonable discounts buying factory direct from both Shenhao and Phoenix-Widepan. But Fotoman refused to give any discount from the US retail price so I did not buy one. My reasoning was merely that I did not agree to pay for distribution, customs and US service and support costs for a camera that would never be used in the USA. Phoenix has told me that they are working on a fixed lens model of a Widepan camera, most likely based on 6x17 film format. I will be waiting for that. Meanwhile I will be happy using my 6x12 Widepan and a 4x5 Shenhao with its 6x12 roll film back.

[will_legge]

"My reasoning was merely that I did not agree to pay for distribution, customs and US service and support costs for a camera that would never be used in the USA."

 

Who says you would be? The Fotoman prices were set before they had a US distributor. If you order directly from them you need to pay for shipping (read: distribution). I doubt you would be paying for US "service and support costs" (whatever that means) because I don't think the camera is designed to need repair and a company the size of Fotoman does not have such support systems in place. I'm sure if something goes wrong, they eat the cost.

 

I'm sorry they did not give you a discount. But they don't give a discount to anyone. Just like Leica cameras are not cheaper in Germany, nor Nikon cheaper in Japan. I don't think they need to be vilified because they follow standard international business practices.

 

Which brings me to another point, will we as photographers support the companies that manufacture our equipment? It seems many people at Photo.net only buy used or demand large discounts. Cameras are not cheap to manufacture. Companies do not like to stick huge prices on their equipment - they sell more if the price is low. By buying a new camera, you are supporting a camera company. They in turn can make the products we want. I think Fotoman have made panoramic cameras more affordable and are going to allow many more people to enter this area. Why not support that - their risk and effort has been greater than ours.

[ilkka]

I was willing to pick up the camera from the factory, so no costs for distribution. The company can set its pricing policy any way it likes. Some people may prefer that they do not give discounts. Other companies price their products differently in different markets. When I use my own money, I decide what I spend it on. In this case, I decided to spend it on Widepan and wait for their new introduction of a 6x17. So far they have been much friendlier to me than Fotoman. The last 5-6 cameras I have bought have all been new. These include for example offerings from Leica and Hasselblad. I have not bought any used cameras in a long while and am not planning to do so in the foreseeable future.

[will_legge]

Sorry ILKKA, I did not mean to imply that you did not buy new. It was more a general statement.

 

As far as Fotoman's factory, I would be very surprised if they had one. They are most likely using machine shops and optics manufacturers to make the equipment for them. Nor do most camera manufacturers give discounts for picking the product up at their office or plant.

 

I'm not suggesting you need to buy their cameras, but I think your expectation of a discount because you visit them is unrealistic. Especially since "distribution" is most likely a very small part of pricing - $20/unit or so. I think critisizing them because they charge you the same as all their other customers is strange.

[ilkka]

I did not criticise Fotoman, I merely pointed out that I could not agree with them on the price. In my second posting above I mentioned that I got better service from Widepan and that is true. They have always been very helpful, responsive and courteous to me, more so than Fotoman. I am sure the Fotoman is a fine camera, otherwise I would not have been interested in buying one. In China it is very common to buy product direct from factory, at something less than full retail price. That is how we at least buy all our soft drinks, mineral water and many other products. We can call Suntory's, or Nestle's, distribution company and the next day their beer truck is in our garden ready to deliver as many cartons or six packs I want. Good service, and I don't have to buy the whole truckload either.

[will_legge]

ILKKA, I am sorry for misunderstanding the tone of your post. Also, there are obviously customs in China that are different from Japan, England, and USA. We are so used to a fixed retail price that we would not think of contacting the manufacturer to bargan for a price.

[tony80862]

Right. It happens that I own one of the Fotoman 617 cameras. It is solid and easy to use. For a camera of this type, you just do not need any service. The beauty of it is that you can use a wide range of lenses, unlike the Fuji 617 that restricts you to their own lenses - only 4 of them. I currently use a Rodenstock 90mm on it taking stunning pictures. Good value. One of the rare situations where the old saying " you get what you pay for" does not apply.

 

Tony Jinn