Windows XP & Monitor Profiles

[tom_herman1]

I thought I understood Windows inside & out, until I started becoming

involved with color management. Haven't yet done an instrument

assisted monitor profile, just Adobe Gamma.

 

First, my configuration: 1) Windows XP Pro SP2. 2) Sony CPD-G400 CRT

monitor. 3) Nvidia GeForce3 Ti200 (Dell) graphics card. 4) Photoshop

Elements 3.0 (PSE3).

 

Mainly because I was skeptical if the correct monitor profile is in

fact working, and also trying to understand better what the software

is doing, I tried the following and am now thoroughly confused.

 

1) using Control Panel > Adobe Gamma, I created a bogus profile with

an obvious horrid green cast. I save the profile as JUNK.icc.

JUNK.icc is in the expected WindowsXP folder, C:\WINDOWS\system32

\spool\drivers\color. Naturally, all monitor images (windows desktop,

PSE3, etc) have the green cast, so I know the bogus JUNK.icc profile

is in effect.

 

2) I examine Windows Display Properties > Settings > Advanced > Color

Management tab, and as expected, the "default monitor profile" is

JUNK.icc.

 

3) Using MSCONFIG.exe, I intentionally disable AdobeGammaLoader.exe

so it does NOT start when rebooting the PC.

 

4) I reboot the PC (with AdobeGammaLoader disabled), and the monitor

comes up looking "normal", without the bogus green cast.

 

5) yet when I examine Windows Display Properties >...> Color

Management, JUNK.icc is STILL listed as the "default monitor profile".

 

SO WHY ISN'T THE "DEFAULT PROFILE" IN EFFECT ??

 

6) deleting the default profile and rebooting, no change

(still "normal"). Re-adding the JUNK.icc as the deafult profile, no

change (still "normal").

 

This seems completely contrary to what I thought the Windows Display

Properties and the "default monitor profile" should do. I expected

Windows to always apply the "default monitor profile", even if

AdobeGammaLoader is disabled.

 

Even Microsoft's own website claims Windows should be behaving as I

expect,

(http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/productdoc/en/default.a

sp?

url=/windowsxp/home/using/productdoc/en/icm_change_color_profile_monit

or.asp),

 

"To change the active color profile for a monitor Open Display in

Control Panel.

On the Settings tab, click Advanced.

On the Color Management tab, click the color profile you want to make

active, and then click Set As Default.

Click Apply or OK"

 

DOES ANYONE HAVE AN EXPLANATION FOR THIS?

[randall ellis]

I tossed out Adobe Gamma for QuickGamma. QuickGamma is free, works well for my purposes, is easy to use, and is much better than the Adobe program in my opinion. I am sure that these programs are not as good as using a spider, but they are certainly good enough for what I do. This program can be found <a href="http://www.normankoren.com/makingfineprints1A.html">here</A>.

[beauh44]

Hi Tom, I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong but simply stopping Adobe Gamma from loading at startup doesn't delete or change your junk.icc monitor profile. I don't load Adobe Gamma either but it has no effect on what profile I select. I don't think anything's amiss at all. Best wishes . . .

[tom_herman1]

What's confusing me is this --

If one chooses NOT to have AdobeGamma, or QuickGamma , or any other 3rd part utility running in the background, then WindowsXP "ought" to be applying the Monitor Profile I select as the "default monitor profile" in the applet "Windows Display Properties >...> Color Management".

 

Yet Windows is NOT applying the desired profile, or at least not on my system. That's what's disturbing.

 

I intentionally created the greenish JUNK.icc monitor profile so it would be obvious. Real profiles are more subtle, and an incorrectly loaded profile might not get detected right away.

[ethervizion]

Windows does absolutely nothing with the default profile on it's own. It's simply used as a tag for ICC aware applications.

 

Using Adobe Gamma gives you LUT based calibration (and of course, your profile must then reflect that calibration, which is why it generates a new one for you). Outside of ICC aware applications, all you'd get is the calibration provided by Adobe Gamma (no adjustment based on the profile). Without Adobe Gamma Loader, you then get NO adjustment outside of ICC aware applications.

 

The moral of the story: calibration applies all the time; for LUT based calibration, you need something like Adobe Gamma Loader to apply it when you start your system; profiles in the Windows display settings does nothing except inform ICC aware applications which display profile to use.

[tom_herman1]

Karl-

That would certainly explain a lot!

 

In the absence of a LUT based calibration utility (Adobe Gamma Loader or equivalent), is it solely the Monitor's simple hardware settings (brightness, contrast, etc) that are in effect?

 

However, even when I set JUNK.icc as the Windows "default monitor profile", Photoshop Elements 3 (PSE3) and images displayed within it, look "normal".

 

My ghoul-green JUNK.icc monitor profile apparently is NOT being recognized or applied by PSE3 to it's displayed images. Perhaps PSE3 is not "full featured" enough to do this?

 

So I should just let AdobeGammaLoader do its thing, then all images on my monitor should be correctly displayed in all software applications (PSE3, Video editing, etc), providing I have created a good Monitor Profile.

 

I'm curious: when using a software/hardware monitor profiling tool (eg, Monaco Optix XR), it surely must have it's own software that applies LUT corrections at bootup, as Monaco can't assume there's already an AdobeGammaLoader installed on the system.

 

In that case, presumably one has to disable AdobeGammaLoader & let the "Monaco LUT Loader" manage your PC's monitor ??

[glenn_kroeger]

Tom:

 

Each hardware/software solution comes with its own gamma loader, and yes, it is critical that only one be run at startup... otherwise they fight!

[anders_widman]

I think Karl is right.

 

The monitor profile that you choose in the display settings is NOT for emulator or otherwise calibrating the screen. Its purpose is to tell applications what properties/charasteristics the monitor has.

 

The idea is that programs should use the profile to render colors accurately on screen. As for standard windows applications, they do not use any colour management. It seem a little odd that Photoshop Elements did not support this!

 

Adobe Gamma, as far as I see it, is made for "emulating" other gamma or colour settings (like white point) onto the monitor - not for simply providing a accurate monitor profile.

[dennis_mv]

Yes, color management is confusing. I'm learning this first hand with a hardware calibration package I got.<br>

<br>

Windows has its own icc profile changer that works without the problems you've described. You can download it <a href="http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/digitalphotography/prophoto/colorcontrol.mspx">here</a>