Is there a best way to delete the files on a CF card after copying them to a computer HD?

[nikonichiban]

I just switched to digital.

 

I went out shooting this weekend, came home, and copied my RAW files to my

computer's hard-drive using a card reader.

 

How should I delete the files from the CF card? Should I use the camera or the

computer, and how should I do it? Does it even matter?

 

Thanks

[beauh44]

Hi David, Put the card back in your camera and format it. This should be an option from an in-camera menu and erases everything. Good luck!

[nikonichiban]

That's exactly what I did.

 

Thanks

[jeffrey moore]

Yes, it does matter.

 

With all due respect, I'll have to disagree with Beau on this one. You should get in the habit of formatting the card via your computer rather than in the camera. I don't know which camera you have, but it is almost certain that formatting the card with your computer while it is still in the card reader will do a more thorough, complete format. Most formatting in cameras is a quick format as opposed to full format with the computer. Formatting in-camera is more likely to lead to lost data and errors.

 

Here's what I do: Download the files to the HD via the card reader; confirm the files are there and readable; if it's a really important job, I'll also download them to a 2nd HD; burn them to CD-R; then do a full format via the computer while the card is still in the reader.

[lb-]

"Formatting in-camera is more likely to lead to lost data and errors."

 

thats quite an assertion. Please back that up with some factual information.

 

thanks

 

lucas

[nikonichiban]

I have a D70. How do I format using the computer?

 

I transfer my RAW files directly to PS Elements 3.0. I don't use Capture or the Nikon

software that came with the camera.

[paul -]

<i>"Formatting in-camera is more likely to lead to lost data and errors."</i><p>Well, I'll put my trust in Canon (as per the user manuals for the 10D, 20D, and 300D):<br>"<i>...a CF card formatted with another camera or personal computer might not work with the camera."</i><p>I have never had a problem of any kind with a card, and have always formatted in-camera instead of erasing.

[frank_oddsocks]

Since flash memory can be written to only a limited number of times, I'd have thought doing a "full" format would reduce the life of the card by 1/3. I'd be believing Canon and using the camera.

[lb-]

both canon and nikons support sites are explicit in this.

 

DO NOT formatt the CF card with the computer, do it in camera.

 

cheers

 

lucas

[moli_luo]

<p><i>Most formatting in cameras is a quick format as opposed to full format with the computer. Formatting in-camera is more likely to lead to lost data and errors.</i></p>

 

<p>I believe most camera manufacturers recommend in-camera formatting as that allows for the right sort of formatting of the card. For example, some cameras do not support FAT32, so if you were to format it as such on a PC, the camera will probably not recognize it. Moreover, I highly doubt a computer format is any more thorough than an in-camera one. Both sorts of formats just empties any entries in the FAT, to my knowledge. A "thorough" bit-by-bit formatting would take forever and is really unfeasible anyway.</p>

[rcox2]

Reformat should be done in camera. Fastest and best way to erase photos on card.

[godfrey]

If you simply want to erase everything on the card, format in the camera. <br>

If you want to erase everything on the card except images that you have set the 'protect'

option on, use the delete all function. <br>

<br>

Some utilities on some computers have the option of deleting files individually as they are

uploaded from the card. I've found this to work well for some purposes.

<br><br>

Godfrey

[beauh44]

Trust us - format in-camera. I've been doing it for 3 years and never had a CF card go bad. Think about it: If you do it in your PC, will you format it in FAT 16? FAT 32? NTFS file system? MAC file system? Windoze 98? Your camera knows how to format your card(s) just fine without hurting anything. I stand behind the original recommendation and know of no data supporting the claim that says formatting with a PC is somehow better. Best wishes . . .

[robin_sibson1]

Beau has reported both the advice from camera manufacturers and the common experience correctly, and on this occasion there seems to be no vested interest on the part of the camera manufacturers in telling lies. But why is it so? There was a time when magnetic media devices were unreliable to the extent that something written on one device might not read on another device of the same specification because of mechanical inconsistencies, but that was then, this is now, and in any event a CF card is a solid-state device. Sure you might choose the wrong file-system, but I suspect there's more to it than that. AFAIK, until CF cards hit the 2GB limit, no-one ever thought of using anything but FAT16, and FAT32 is the only system used for larger cards. NTFS has never been relevant, and W98 is not a file system specification anyhow. Perhaps the problem lies in the choice of block size, with cameras only accepting a particular block size which is not necessarily what the PC (or another camera) would choose by default. Normally devices are content to work with any old block size, although it can affect speed and also ability to defragment under Diskeeper. Does anyone actually know the answer, or even have any informative experience of failure?

[beauh44]

Hi Robin, You're absolutely right - Windows is certainly not a filesystem! I didn't clearly elucidate the point I was trying to make, which is: If we were to rely on our PC's to format our camera's CF cards, it could certainly become a big mess, fast. FAT 32, FAT 16, and MAC OS I believe are all sufficiently different to wreak havoc with most digital camera user's heads and confuse most people.

 

Back in "the day" (mid to late 80's) I recall doing low-level formats on disk drives that we were preparing for various network operating systems. This could take a while. (Anyone remember Compsurfing a NetWare drive? It might take two or three days sometimes) One reason was, as you noted, magnetic defects that could and did appear on disk drives. The software would write data to a block then re-read it; if what it re-read wasn't what it put there, then it would mark that block as unusable to the OS. Also, as you noted, CF cards are not magnetic.

 

Now I realize that the high-level, FAT-16 format isn't quite the same thing, and if you know what you're doing, fine - go for it. But that's quite time-consuming and totally impractical for me, anyway. I don't always have the luxury of having a PC with my camera and repeatedly deleting files (without doing a format) with CF cards is definitely asking for trouble as the data becomes fragmented on the card.

 

Most digital cameras use the FAT-16 format; however newer ones, like the 1Ds-MKII can use FAT 32 I believe to accomodate the larger capacity (>2gig) cards available now. So what we're talking about is a moving target.

 

But the original question wasn't quite this esoteric. I believe David wanted to know the best way to "delete" the contents of his CF cards and I still firmly believe that an in-camera format is the best way to accomplish that. Apparently so does Canon as well as other digital camera manufacturers.

 

From http://www.canon-europe.com/patches/notice_dig_cam_users/notices_dig_cam_users.html :

 

"Always format a CF card using the format option available in your Canon digital camera."

 

From: http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/controller?act=OSCompatibilitySupportAct&keycode=windr&fcategoryid=215&modelid=8280

 

"If you use a CF card that has been formatted with the higher capacity file system on a Canon digital camera that does not support that system, one of the following messages will appear on the LCD of the camera and you cannot shoot a picture:"No image", "CF card error!" or "CF card full". (Messages are different according to the camera model.)"

 

Not to mention, as noted above, the 10D and 20D camera manuals themselves, which recommend in-camera formatting too.

 

>Does anyone actually know the answer, or even have any informative experience of failure?

 

I'm not sure if this is quite what you're asking for, but you might find it of interest: http://www.diskonkey.com/documents/Performance_reliability.pdf

 

I certainly don't recommend doing it, but many digital cameras today support direct printing, with no PC intervention required. What are people supposed to use to format their cards then? I believe the camera itself is the most obvious answer. I'm done! ;-) Best wishes . . .

[jeffrey moore]

With respect to my previous post, the recommendation was the conclusion of an article I read several months, maybe a year ago, in one of the PC-related publications (I forget which one), not a photography magazine. I plead guilty to not having the article in front of me now for reference purposes.

 

The author supposedly conducted tests with several different cameras, both digicams and DLSRs, and several different brand cards, both CF and microdrives. The consclusion of his tests was that in-camera formatting was less thorough, more likely to result in data errors and dropped data, than in-computer formatting. I am certainly no scientist myself; I just remember that the article and its conclusions made sense to me at the time I read it. I do know this: With my own digital camera (Nikon D100) formatting in-camera takes less than 10 seconds. When I format the card with the computer, doing a full format via the card reader in Windows XP, it takes a few minutes to format a 1-GB microdrive. So, you must admit that there is something "different" going on here.

 

As far as file formats go, the D100 supports FAT32 (with firmware v2.00) and I format my card that way. It works for me. That certainly doesn't mean I am saying that mine is the only way.

 

And I am far from the only person on this forum who agrees with this approach.

[frank_oddsocks]

Confusion reigns in this thread about the meaning of "format".

Traditionally there was <i>formatting</i> and <i>initialization</i>.

<p>

<i>Formatting</i> meant writing to each and every block on the medium and was done for security, as a physical check, and to map bad blocks. This is sometimes called a "full format" to emphasize what's happening. It of course takes much longer. It is less necessary these days because the disk controller itself does the bad-block mapping. This is what you want to do if you're selling a CF card or you suspect it of being faulty, and you'd probably need to do it in a computer.

<p>

<i>Initialization</i> is just resetting a few pointers to make it appear there's nothing on the volume. It will fix fragmentation but does not securely destroy what was on the medium or check it is writeable everywhere. This is what you want to do with a CF card you reuse in your own camera. The confusion came about because Windows does this by default when you tell it to "format".

<p>

Frankly, the camera makers should get off their butts and develop a card format that doesn't remain fragmented even when all files have been deleted. Then there would not be a need to "format" (initialize).

[phu_nguyen2]

Instaead of copy you can move them