D70 or S3

[john_flickinger]

I have just finished a very limited evaluation of the S3. I had not intended to purchase this camera because of what I had read. Indeed as I can now attest first-hand Michael Reichmann's review was even better than I orginally gave him credit for. But, alas I did. So here is what I can say so far.

 

If this is your first DSLR you will be very impressed. If you have an S2 you will notice a few improvements but in my opinion none are worth the price tag. If you have been using the D2H, D70, D1X and perhaps any of the newer Canon cameras, you will need to satisfy yourself that you have a niche for the S3 or you will be second-guessing yourself. As I am now!

 

I will not get into the 6 vs 12 mp arguement, also I have no ability to test resolution. But I think I can say for those who want to avoid RAW processing this camera produces the best out-of-the-camera jpgs I have seen. If that is what you are looking for then this is the camera deserves a real close look.

 

The inclusion of the HS-V2 software offered me the hope that I would be able to immediately convert the new RAW images and see if there really was a reason to stay with the RAW format. The problem was my software would not load properly and not until I was able to get another diak was I able to try the conversion. I also noticed that there are numerous mispellings, a defect in imported camera software and documentation I that I though had been settled long ago. The Owner's Manual suffers from the same defect and has others errors as well. But we can all live with that, or should we?

 

I think Fuji owes us better than this! And, not only Fuji. The incremental improvements of the S3 over the S2 are in my opinion not worth the money, although I must admit I paid almost the same amount of money for the S2 when I first got it. Aside from the new battery system, a reasonably adroit photographer using RAW and reasonable PS techniques could produce very nearly the same quality from the S2. Yes there are the new film choices, but they are available in the jpg format. So again if jpg is what you want then the quality from the S3 will be hard to beat.

 

I have taken comparison shots with my other cameras just as others have. We can all look at these photos critically and lean one way or the other as to which one we think is best, but unless there is a clear advantage, one that can be easily seen I wonder if it is worth the discussions. That is where the colour charts and reolution tests will no doubt carry the day. But unless I am very wrong, it is my opinion that the differences these tests will show will be small indeed and serve only to support sujective opinion as to which is really best.

 

As many others are saying I will realy look closely at the D2X. If I had less of a collection of Niokon glass I may even be tempted to look more closely at the Canons.

[john_slater1]

This is an interesting forum so I will contribute a few pennyworth of comments. I am in the position of having to replace my S2 as I have now taken over 100,000 photos with it and the electronics are playing up. I only do portrait/model photography and I work exclusively with monobloc flash lighting. 99.9% of the photographs that are take are in studio conditions. I am almost always on the road and as I shoot professionally in several different continents I need to have a back up camera at all times. Not surprisingly I have been looking closely at the D70. I have previously bought cameras on the basis of website reviews and these reviews have invariably been useless to me. The people that write these reviews seem to concentrate on landscapes with a few photos taken with on camera flash ( I never use on camera flash). In spite of having a swag of nikon lenses the reviews on the canon digitals were so convincing that I decided to try them. I bought the 300D which was nowhere near up to the task and followed this up with the canon 10d which was actually slightly worse than the 300d. It was completely hopeless when faced with demanding situations. The S2 in contrast handles these sorts of conditions very well. It is very rare that I do a shoot which I am unable to sell. The only serious fault with the S2 for my purposes has been the terrible focussing. It is possibly related to the two lots of batteries that it uses and I am keen to know whether people are still having the same problems with the S3. I am also interested to know if there is anyone out there who has used the D70 in the studio with studio lights and how it fares.

 

Most of the current crop of DLSRs cameras are fine for still photos in good natural light. So was the olympus E10 which was the first digital that I tried to use in the studio but was also useless with studio lighting. What I am saying really is that there are cameras for courses. The S2 and presumably the S3 will be no help to sports photographers. But if you have to get good results consistently and you are working in studio conditions the Fuji is a great choice.

[beeman458]

As an advanced amateur, I think, should I be in need, an S3 would be an excellent body of choice because of the extended dynamic range, the film style choice and finish of the JPEG processing. A bit pricey in nature but that's a money thing, not a quality thing. I have a huge basket of Canon lenses so unless the S3 comes out in a /c mount, I'm still going to be here with a 10D while waiting eternally for the yet to be announced 3D:)<p>

 

If I were in your row boat, which I'm not, I'd have already picked up a 1Ds. And if I were doing the volume that it sounds like you're doing, which I'm not, I'd have at least a 1DsMkII on order.<p>

 

I do landscape and artsy kinda of imaging, haven't done weddings in almost thirty years and I've never done fashion. Ya might want to chat with this fellow here as he's your kinda guy. Here's a link to some of <a href="http://www.photographersportfolio.com/stephen/main.htm">Steve Eastwood's studio work.</a> E-mail him as he's quite happy to chat it up with folks and pretty much all he does is studio lighting type of imaging. <a href="http://www.nyphotographics.com">nyphotographics.com</a><p>

 

His body of choice is either the 1DMkII or the 1DsMkII, coupled with a Canon 35-350mm. He loves softboxes, umbrellas and multiple cross, back and frontal lighting senarios; edgy or soft. From e-mail conversations he uses Speedotron's Blackline power packs and Force 10 monolights. He posts samples over on dpreview in the 1D/1Ds forum on a semi, when he can, regular basis. Do a search of his name, with the all text setting. Click on his name and look at his many posts and threads to get an idea about what he uses.<p>

 

Hope the above is found helpful.<p>

[john_slater1]

Having looked at that website I am still not convinced that the 1ds is the way to go. Can't actually see anything there that the S2 won't do. If I am going to spend those sort of dollars on a digital I shall wait until the Leica M3 becomes available to have a look at or, because I do like autofocus, what the digital back makers come up with over the next year or two. I suspect they will put canon on the back seat as far as quality is concerned.

[john_slater1]

I meant the leica module R not the M3

[beeman458]

"Having looked at that website I am still not convinced that the 1ds is the way to go."

 

I wasn't trying to convince you of anything other than to convince you to get in touch with Steve, via e-mail, as he has experience with the Canon 1-series of digital bodies. The point of the web site link was that you mentioned; "I only do portrait/model photography and I work exclusively with monobloc flash lighting. 99.9% of the photographs that are take are in studio conditions." So I wanted you to see that Steve was of a similar nature and had lots of studio, portrait/model, monobloc flash lighting experience as opposed to the limited commercial nature of most who haunt these forums.

 

As to convincing one, look at what the fashion mag photographers at Conde Nast or other mags use as this might also be helpful in your decision making process.

 

What ever you choose to do, be safe and wishing you the best.

[beeman458]

"I suspect they will put canon on the back seat as far as quality is concerned."

 

At eight grand (US) for a sixteen megapixels, FF 24x36mm sensor, it's the other way around as to Phase One and the others being quickly put on the back seat. Sixteen megapixels works out to an ideal number of 300dpi, double truck, 11"x17". And coupled with the low noise capability of Canon's circuitry, the next generation will be in the eighteen to twenty-two megapixel range and Phase One, Imacon & Leaf Valeo will be financially compromised cause Canon's name is image quality one.

 

The only flaw I can see in the 1DsMkII is that it doesn't have a Pocket Wizard transmitter built in like you can get for a Nikon body. Once the Pocket Wizard in incorporated into Canon's 1-series, then the horse will be out of the barn and the big dogs are going be sitting on the porch as they're already in the process of tiring:)

[john_slater1]

It is such an innovative field still that it is hard to know what is going to happen next. I think that is why so many people defer a new purchase in case you miss the next innovation. I remember my dealer going through a D30, D60, 10d and 20d all in the space of about eighteen months. Yes I am not seriously looking at the phase one or phase two as these are megabucks and probably offer little over the other options.

 

Magazine photographers? yaak. wash your mouth out.

[beeman458]

"I remember my dealer going through a D30, D60, 10d and 20d all in the space of about eighteen months."

 

Yes, those were fun times. I have a D30 and currently use a 10D as I await the "Yet to be announced 3D." Amazing how much one might save by leapfrogging development or buying referbs/used.

 

"Magazine photographers? yaak. wash your mouth out."

 

Sorry! :)

 

The ruling Junta is the ruling Junta, no matter what media or camera body you choose to use today:) Conde Nast has had a huge historical influence on the world of fashion photography, so they're as good of a place to look for insight as to the validity of one product over another as the next.

 

Looks like if you already have the S2, then the lense mount will be the deciding factor as glass investment is a big consideration and there might be a S3 in your future. Me? I probably won't worry about upgrading the 10D until next year, after PMA 2006. If it were my call, which it isn't, having the amount invested in Canon glass that I do, it would be, without question, either a 20D or a used 1Ds as my next body. Either of these bodies would carry me for at least the next two to ten years, depending on any "MAJOR" technological changes that expectedly will come down the R&D pipe.

[john_slater1]

Glass doesn't really bother me as most of my shots are taken with 50mm 1.4d and the canon equivalent is not expensive. I am certainly struggling with this decision and after what you have said I would have to be tempted if I find a used 1ds. The 1Ds II is out of my price range at present. One of the things that annoyed me on the 10d (and the 20d is much the same) is the poor quality of the LCD monitor. I don't know why they don't put the same LCD monitor from the 1D in the 20D.

[phil_young3]

It is such an innovative field still that it is hard to know what is going to happen next. I think that is why so many people defer a new purchase in case you miss the next innovation. I remember my dealer going through a D30, D60, 10d and 20d all in the space of about eighteen months.

 

 

Thank goodness they keep making new models quickly. It would be terribly boring if we had to wait more than 18 months for another new toy to play with!!

[beeman458]

"I don't know why they don't put the same LCD monitor from the 1D in the 20D."

 

My work around the crummy LCD screen is to have faith in my view finding framing skills, chimp the histogram religiously and let the images fall where they may, dressing things up in PSCS as the images may need; all camera settings (parameters) set to their lowest settings.

 

I think, from what I've read, other then starting firmware issues and finicky BG-E2 (battery grip) electrical contacts with the 20D, image quality wise, your cliental will be quite happy with the final results.

[phil_young3]

Got my Fujifilm S3 Pro yesterday. The photos look pretty darn good. The built-in flash works a heck of a lot better than the one on the Canon 20D. The USB driver they provided didn't work, so I had to put the CF card into my 20D to download it. Also, after a couple of hours of shooting with my old Nikor AF zoom lense, the auto focus started to lock up periodically. Today, I went and bought the new Nikon 24-120mm zoom VR D lense - but that didn't correct the lock up problem. sometimes I can shoot a pic every second, other times, the auto focus locks up so I can take a picture. What the hell is going on here? Anyone else have this problem? PYoung2493@aol.com

[phil_young3]

What I meant above was "other times the auto focus locks up so I CANNOT take a picture at all" , like for 10 seconds. I have to keep pushing the shutter release like 10 times to get it working again. By that time, the rabits have all gone home.

[beeman458]

I'm gonna "guess" dirty contacts on the S3 body.<p>

 

Check out the Fuji form over at <a href="http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/forum.asp?forum=1020">dpreview.com Fuji SLR forum</a> and see if any of the users there have experienced this problem.<p>

 

Look forward to more of your comments on the S3 as it seems like it will give one "great" captures.<p>

[john_slater1]

This is making me nervous as the focus has been my main bug with the S2. I get the impression they haven't improved it much on the S3. On the S2 I sort of solved this by changing the focus setting from S to C (continuous) or to manual and taking a few photos like this then trying again. What may happen is the focus mechanism can't find a point to lock onto - try pointing the camera at a pole or something with a vertical line and retrying the shot.

[phil_young3]

Thanks for the advise, but it's not the contacts. The new lense was doing the same thing. I think it was locking up after many consecutive shots because I was using the built-in flash consecutively and the focus would not work when the flash was charging up. It didn't do that when I don't use the built-in flash (when I use my studio strobes, no lock-ups noticed). So far, my Canon 20D is a much faster focusing and shooting camera, for sure. Also, the photos look better from the Canon right out of the camera, contrary to what another reviewer has indicated on another website. Of course, I can adjust the photos from the S3 Pro to look as good as the Canon, but it appears to be more work than needs to be. I still need to play with the S3 Pro camera more to get be familiar with its personality. The studio flash photos look really good so far. I still can't get the USB to recognize the camera! So now I'm going to add a firewire PCI card to my computer to see if that'll work. There are a lot of options and adjustments on the camera and I have not had enough time to fully evaluate everything yet.

[kari douma]

Phil,

This is my first digital camera, so I have nothing to compare it to yet, but I love it. I have not had any trouble with any of my nikor lenses. Nothing has frozen up on it. I have not had any trouble with my computer recognizing my camera. I loaded the finepix software that came with the camera, and I loaded the pictures in through the software. I have been on the Fuji SLR Forum on DP Review's website and have not heard any one having the problems that you are. Hope you don't have the one that is a problem.

[beeman458]

Phil

 

Did you check the contacts on the body. The flash, the lense and the body are connected electronically to each other so one knows what the other is doing.

 

Take an eraser, lightly, to the contacts on the body making sure of course that none of the dust gets inside the unit. Other than that, if you've already asked over on dpreview.com in the Fuji SLR forum, then it might be off to the service center with your little buddy.

 

One final thought, have you given Fuji service a call as they might be already on top of a mechanical malfunction of this nature.

 

Wishing you luck and hope it's something easy.

[phil_young3]

Thank you for your hints. I did call Fuji and they verified that I have a bad camera. They have gave me a service return ticket to give to the camera shop for an authorized factory return. I found that Fuji's technical support to be responsive, quick and professional. I then called the camera shop and they had no problems with making a swap with another new one. In the meanwhile, here is a photo I took out of the S3 Pro with no color adjustments, because I'm partially red/green color-blind. Please comment on color or quality. I did use auto-contrast and auto sharpen tool in PS. It has been cropped and reduced to 450 pixels wide.

 

Phil<div></div>

[beeman458]

Color seems a touch saturated in the skin tones. But overall, very pleasing. I'd maybe take the red down a touch in levels. Could be the white balance but based on the wall in the background, color balance seems to be okay.

 

I'd love to see the detail in the fur in a 100% crop as there's plenty of detail in the individual strands of hair.

 

Then of course there's the haunting look of "red eye" but that easily fixed in PSCS.

 

Overall, it looks like the body does what it's intended to do, get pleasing, out of the box images.

 

How do you like the full size images which come up on your screen or you have printed out?

[phil_young3]

Thanks for the analysis. This may be a dumb question, but what is a 100% crop? Is that the original size? Phil

[phil_young3]

Here is a 773KB size photo of above. Cropped photo. Built-in flashed was used and the flash exposure was compensated by +1.0ev because my flash photos all came out too dark. From what I've read, the SB800 is a terrific flash for the S3 Pro.

 

Phil<div></div>

[beeman458]

Not a dumb question.<p>

 

Bring the image up to 100% size, unprocessed and then do a small crop of a telling area of the image. In this case, just the shoulder fur area. By doing this, one can easily download a portion of the whole image and play with or it will give the viewer an upclose and personal view of a particular area of the image in question.<p>

 

In the case of your crop, if it's a crop of the processed image, the image is showing either sharpening artifacts or JPEG artifacts. A 100% crop of the image would reduce the intensity of either of these points.

[phil_young3]

I see. OK, here's an unprocessed 100% crop of the fur section right out of the camera without any sharpening or adjustments.<div></div>