D70 or S3

[kari douma]

I keep going back and forth between the D70 and the S3. I have been

waiting patiently for the reviews on the S3 before I buy a digital

camera. The things that are important to me on the S3 are the more

rugged body, the magapixal makeup, and the ISO 100. I have heard

they can produce some beautiful enlargements 30X40. I wasn't happy

with my 35 mm enlargements, so I shoot medium format now. What I

like about the D70 is the price, speed is faster, and Flash sync.

WHAT DO I DO?????? I am going crazy trying to decide!

[kari douma]

I forgot to mention that I shoot mostly portraits. I do seniors, families, kids, and weddings. It is not a full time job, just a "fund my expensive hobby" job. If I EVER get ALL the equipment I want then it will be a "make some extra money" job!

[robert_martin5]

You may want to review the following evaluation of the Fuji S3.

 

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/s3-pro.shtml

 

It did not get a very good review.

[kari douma]

Thanks Robert. I did read it. It's funny how two people can read the same review and come up with different conclusions! My conclusion is that it is an overall good camera, with a few faults. The only bad thing is the price!

[peter_foiles2]

I have been very interested in the S3 as well but have been very unimpressed with what I have learned so far. I am a regular reader of the Luminous-landscape site and have even meet Michael Reichman and his review of the S3 is defintely lukewarm by his standards. When he likes a product you know it and the S3 is not something that he likes. It would be a very competitive camera at $1500 but makes no sense at $2500. Nikon will almost certainly introduce a stronger competitor for the Canon 20D this spring for around $1500. You can buy the D70 for $1000 now and get the new Nikon in the spring for about $1500 and have a great 2 body setup for the ame price as a single S3 body. Makes way more sense to me.

[beeman458]

If I was suffering from the sort of vacillation caused by this sort of informational overload and the mental lock that this well known condition can cause, I'd punt:) And in this case, knowing that everybody is going to be coming out with a next generation gee wiz flashier model in the next many upcoming months, I'd get the $1,500.00 Canon 20D but then again, I have a pot full of Canon mount glass.

 

Considering that this seems to be a Nikon mount thing, I'd pop for either the D100 or the D2H as if you're going to use it for semi-pro shoots, I'd go with the better equipment.

 

Disclaimer, I don't know zip about Nikon so I'll have to stick with my Canon recommendation:)

[jack paradise]

A french magazine laments on the high price of this camera considering it still has 6mp (6 millions photosites each with two photodiodes). That does not change the spatial resolution which remains at 6mp. It remains to be seen if the claimed increase in dynamic range warrants the difference in price with other 6mp camera.

 

As for the Nikon camera body, either Nikon did not play fair or Fuji is being naive. Flash system is older type: Nikon D-TTL. Autofocus does not have the speed and precision of the Nikon D70. Also minimalist RAW converter.

 

Seems to be an overall good 6mp camera with increased dynamic range. Will Fuji boosters or loyalists still want to pay a premium over another cameras with same spatial resolution ?

[tholte]

Kari, listen to Peter, excellent advice. The D70 replacement to compete against the Canon 20D should be out this Spring. Thomas says he doesn't know zip about Nikons but recommends the D2H and D100, that is bad advice. The D70 is better than both of those technogically speaking and is cheaper. The Canon 20D is better than the D70 but costs $500 more. The new Nikon D70 replacement will be as good as the 20D and will cost the same. And remember when all the pseudo-experts talk about how tough the pro camera bodies are made; are you a pro? are you going to hammer nails with it?

[kari douma]

It seams everyone is telling my to go for the D70. Yes, I have my nikon lenses, so I don't want to switch to canon. Is is worth waiting until spring to see if there will be another Nikon? I have already waited to see about the S3, and if I keep playing this game, I'll end up waiting forever. Whatever I buy, a newer model will be available in a few months. D70 is sounding a little better.

[._._z]

Reichmann says in his S3 review, "you measure a difference ? but can you see it in real

world situations?" He's right, but he never tests the camera in situations you intend to

use it for, as you indicated in previous posts you were getting into pro portraits.

 

Fact is, what I see in real-world situations is that the older S2 yields better-looking skin

than other DSLRs in the same price range, and the S3 is expected to be better. Studio

photographers have been buying Fuji SLRs specifically because the image quality is so

good. Indeed, if you look at Reichmann's review he noted he was "highly complimentary

about the [s2's] image quality" (at low ISO speeds), and said of the S3 that it "is capable

of producing some astonishingly high resolution images.... I used several lenses, and in

every case was more than impressed with image clarity and sharpness. "

 

Also comparing a $900 body for enthusiasts to a $2500 one isn't fair, especially as the

S3 is more sturdily built, weighs a third more, and is geared towards pros, especially in

the studio, has a Firewire interface (and USB 2.0), goes down to ISO 100, PC sync

terminal, and more.

[kari douma]

Thanks .[.Z. I think that is what I needed to hear. Kari

[bob_k2]

I would be very wary of buying the $2500 S3. If you really want one, I would wait until the S3 is thoroughly reviewed just to make sure. It could very well be a big flop. Currently <a href="http://search.ebay.com/fuji-s3_W0QQsatitleZfujiQ2aQ20s3QQsbrsrtZlQQsosortorderZ2QQsosortpropertyZ3">on Ebay, there are quite a few that aren't selling.</a>

<p>

I think Fuji is hurting as a photography company. Their film market has gone down the tubes. The S2s produced decent images but have had a lot of problems reported on the message boards. Their customer service sucks. Can't get parts or equipment for the medium format equipment. Their new sensors which were supposed to have increased dynamic range did not have any increase that anyone could see -- the cameras like the f700 were such big flops that they didn't distribute the immediate follow-ons (like the f710) to the United States. Except for the image quality on the S2s (which was good) none of their digital cameras get rated very highly.

<p>

Fuji has been so slow getting the S3 out that their competitors are already a generation or two ahead of it. The only advantage is that it's a "tweener" product filling a void in the Nikon-compatible market -- something better than the $900 D70 and the 4 megapixel D2h, but less expensive than the D2x. Nikon left a hole for them in the market.

<p>

But the images need to be significantly better or it just wouldn't make sense to pay $2500 for a 6 megapixel camera that will surely be obsolete in a few months if it isn't already. If the images are only marginally better, then Fuji has big hole to dig out of in the digital space. Then there are the quality problems for which Fuji has been unresponsive -- it's not likely to get any better when they squeeze more cells on to the same CCD.

<p>

[._._z]

Yes, wait for reviews and early adopter reports. That's true of any camera. If you've got

a complement of Nikon lenses and need a camera right now, you'll probably get along

with the D70. But if you can afford to wait until February, new models from other major

manufacturers will be announced, along with price cuts for older (and competing)

models. By that time good information about the S3 should be available.

[jack paradise]

"Also comparing a $900 body for enthusiasts to a $2500 one isn't fair, especially as the S3 is more sturdily built, weighs a third more, and is geared towards pros..."

 

The Fuji S3 Pro is build on a Nikon N80 camera body. I fail to see where the "Pro" labeling comes from. That would make it a high price "enthusiasts" camera whose autofocus and flash system is bettered by a camera less than 1/2 its price.

 

Can the increase in dynamics alone justify its price ?

[scott_carlsson]

I use both the Fuji S2 and a D70. As good as the S2 is, I don't think the successor S3 can

justify $2500.00. After using the D70 for quite awhile now, I would say that it is a better

camera in every way than the S2, except maybe for the S2's ability to supply a slightly

finer, larger print off the Epson.

 

And seeing the early remarks about the S3's performance can't convince me to justify

nearly 3 times the price of the D70. I think I would sooner switch to a 20D, or wait for the

D100 replacement, or put the $$$ toward the D2X, etc.

[kari douma]

Ok, it looks like I need to wait. I have a wedding this week and on Jan 15. Then I have a break until May. I was hoping during that time to learn my digital so I can use it in May. If I wait to see what Nikon releases in the spring, will I be ready for a May wedding?

[ilkka_nissila]

Apparently while it has F80 parts, much of the mechanics is new. So essentially there is little F80 left, the AF sensor being a clear case. However, the sensors are correctly positioned in the viewfinder, unlike in the D70, where they have not been adjusted according to sensor size, which results in too large spaces between sensors and too large sensor area which results in inaccurate focus.

 

Reichmann says very favorable words about the image quality. I think this should be enough.

[._._z]

<i><blockquote> The Fuji S3 Pro is build on a Nikon N80 camera body

</blockquote> </i><p>

 

Not according to the l-l review.

[beeman458]

"Can the increase in dynamics alone justify its price?"

 

If you care about this sort of stuff and have the extra dough, yes.

[beeman458]

"If I wait to see what Nikon releases in the spring, will I be ready for a May wedding?"

 

I would expect that anything Nikon comes out with, that's in the D70 range of sensor bodies, the control layout would be fairly similar.

 

But as to how fast you adjust to the differences in how the sensors respond to light will depend on how much you use the camera in similar lighting situations. You'll also need to consider refamiliarizing yourself with the flash you have or you might even end up having to consider a new fash if Nikon has any flash surprises to throw at you.

 

Either which way, the question comes down to, when will Nikon announce; PMA, end of Feb, Las Vegas and then the question morphs into how soon after Nikon announces before they deliver on this announcement. So May might not be enough time because Nikon won't have delivered on their announcement:( Because of the possible delay between announment and actual delivery, May might not be enought time.

[._._z]

Here's another look at the S3, with large downloadable (in ZIP format) images to

compare on your own the difference between shots utiulizing normal and expanded

dynamic range: <p>

 

<u><A href =

http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc035.html>

http://www.shootsmarter.com/infocenter/wc035.html</a></u> <p>

 

They seem pretty pleased with the camera overall.

[jack paradise]

I said :"The Fuji S3 Pro is build on a Nikon N80 camera body "

 

Someone replied: "Not according to the l-l review."

 

It is according to the french magazine I read and also to dpreview.

 

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/fujifilms3pro/page3.asp

[kari douma]

Thanks for that review .[.Z. I have been looking for more reviews. I'll still wait for more, but it makes me feel a little better.

[kelvinphoto - arlington, t]

If you don't have nikon lens, then go with Canon D20. S3 is overpriced for what it does, and it is not that much better than s2. If you have to stick with Nikon lens, then get D70. IF you don't like d70, then D1X is far better choice than S3 in speed and build.

[bill c.]

I had been having the same debate with myself regarding the S3/D70 choice. While I was talking with a very familiar and trusted salesperson at Penn Camera (Washington DC area pro store), he said that he'd had two pro customers who had the D70, purchased the S3 for studio work, and then returned the S3 because they felt it was no sharper than the D70.

 

Then again, he has several customers who feel that the S3 is the equivalent of 12 megapixels and is the sharpest digital 35mm-based SLR except for the Canon D1s.

 

I've learned that digital resolution is like the speed of light. It varies depending on where you are, which direction you are looking in, and how fast you are traveling.

 

I got the D70 last week and have shot a few assignments and studio jobs with it. Very pleased so far, but I'm looking forward to the D2x, which I already have on order, at an unknown price and delivery date. But if the da**ed D2x ends up being priced at $7000 as some pre-sale info suggests, I'm going to take all the Nikon stuff back and switch to Canon. -BC-