N75 vs N80

[n.a.t.h.a.n]

All,

Please suggest me to get any one of the cameras..

From diff reviews, i feel that N80 has a film scratch problem and

moreover for lens mounting its not having any metal cap which will be

damaging with freq use...

in N75 it has metal cap and looks good build..but slow shutter speed..

 

what would be the diff in picture quality ?

Please suggest and thanks for your time..

[aardvarko]

don't read too many reviews. go to a camera store and play with them both

 

picture quality will be identical or close to identical. it's the lens that really matters for that. the n75 is less convenient to use and doesn't let you adjust film speed. n80 is a bit more sturdily built and takes some add-on parts that n75 doesn't.

[peter_harris2]

In the last 4 years I haven't seen any film scratches with my N80. What do you mean "no metal cap"? The lens mounting ring on the N80 is metal. Picture quality depends on your lens, film, and most of all on your own eye - you can take great shots with both, so choose the one that feels best in your hand.

[ecarter]

I have never seen any scratch problems with my N80, and the N80 has a metal lens mount.

 

The max shutter speed on the N80 is 1/4000, the N75's is 1/2000 - for most people, this doesn't make much if any difference.

 

The N80 seems to be more robust and has a faster continuous shooting speed, but for film cameras, the image quality is up to your technique and lens quality FAR more than the camera body. Given the same lens and same settings, these two cameras will produce the same image quality.

 

You can check out all nikon's current film cameras and compare specs at http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=6 - of the two cameras, I prefer the N80 but either can do a great job.

[ShunCheung]

You cannot override the DX film speed on the N75. That one problem is more than sufficient for me to avoid that camera. There is nothing you can do if the reading happens to be wrong.

[Mike_R1664876643]

No scratching problems with my N80 in four years. I don't know much about the N75, but the N80 is an incredibly feature laden camera for the money. Most photographers really need nothing more in a film camera, so you won't ever have to feel you need to upgrade to something better unless you go digital someday.

[Prof-K]

Shun said: "You cannot override the DX film speed on the N75. That one problem is more than sufficient for me to avoid that camera. There is nothing you can do if the reading happens to be wrong."

 

N75 has everything except that feature. So you can definitly compansate the exposure if it is off by atmost +/- 3 stops (in 1/2 stops).

[joseph_wisniewski]

Nathan, how often do you shoot in manual mode. N80 has two command dials, one is always whutter, the other always aperture, and you use both in manual mode, so it's very convenient.

 

N75 has a single command dial. In manual mode, you have to work a button that sets the command dial to control either shutter or aperture, as needed. You may find it drives you up the wall.

[sam_portera]

No scratches in 5 years with my N80. Great camera. much better than the N75. And I'm not sure I read your question correctly but the N80 does has a metal lens mount.

[chris haake]

"You may find it drives you up the wall."

 

Or, you may not. I have no problem with it. Nor do I have a problem figuring out exposure compensation.

[henricus]

Both of these cameras are fine instruments. I've owned both. After fondling both at my LCS I decided on the N75 because it was cheaper. I brought it home and after two hours of fooling with it at home I decided to return it and get the N80. <p>Here is what I based my decision on. The N80 has a quieter shutter/mirror flap, noticibly quieter. The N75 is lighter and for me this affected my tactile response with this camera in a negative way. Another issue was the ability to change the ISO DX setting. The N75 did not have this feature and although you can use a workaround, for me it was a deal breaker. The N75 has newer metering technology and an improved user interface, but this wasn't enough to sway me. I went back and paid the extra dough and got the N80. I have been extremely pleased with this choice and have not had a sinlge film/negative scratched. The matrix metering is unbelievable and she handles like a dream.

[ShunCheung]

Shakil, years ago I put a roll of Kodachrome 64 into my F4. The DX film speed reading of that roll of ISO 64 film was ISO 4000, or close to 7 stops underexposed. If that happens on an N75, how do you compensate it to fix this problem?

 

I am not making this case up. It actually happened on my F4. I kept playing around with the film cannister, trying to clean the contacts, etc. etc., but it kept reading ISO 4000. On the F4, I just set film ISO manually to 64. You can easily do that on the N80 also.

[chris haake]

Shun, that sounds to me like an error afflicting a specific camera that should have been fixed. Don't blame that error on anything else. For 99.99% of real-world shooting situations, DX reading and exposure compensation are just fine.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"Shakil, years ago I put a roll of Kodachrome 64 into

my F4. The DX film speed reading of that roll of ISO 64 film was

ISO 4000, or close to 7 stops underexposed." --Shun Cheung<br>

</em><br>

This is part of the reason I dont use DX at all. I dont

feel superior, I just dont trust it. A little ChapStick lip

balm on the finders while loading is all it would take to set an

erroneous film speed. I also increase exposure on almost all

negative films both B&W and color. For example I shoot Tri-X

at EI 200 and Portra 160 NC at EI 80.<br>

<br>

<em>"Shun, that sounds to me like an error afflicting a

specific camera that should have been fixed." --Chris Haake<br>

</em><br>

Right! If I always washed my hands every time load a DX camera (even

if the nearest washroom is 75 miles a way) I would never have to

worry about this. The error described by Shun is more likely a

problem with the cassette than the camera if it only happened

once.<br>

<br>

<em>"For 99.99% of real-world shooting situations, DX

reading and exposure compensation are just fine." --Chris

Haake<br>

</em><br>

Not if you understand ISO film speeds, test condition and proper

exposure of negative film. Then again if you always shoot

negative films under controlled studio conditions changing the

film speed is unnecessary. I dont know if they still do it

this way but B&W films used to be film speed tested in ANSI

Standard Developer. This developer gave high film speed, coarse

grain and high contrast. It was just one thing a standardized

developer for test. ISO test are performed in a laboratory and

they dont use lenses or cameras. ANSI Standard Developer is

not/ was not a real world developer so using the film speeds

determined with it under low contrast laboratory conditions

result in constant under exposure of B&W films. I had a photo

processing business for 14 years. It was mostly B&W

processing for PR customers. Ive seen so much under exposed

TX it makes me sick.<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

Using exposure compensation to adjust the film speed is a Rube

Goldberg way of dealing with this problem. The N55, N65 and N75

just do not offer full SRL controls because of certain

assumptions made about the typical customer. I tired of taking

the rape for saying what kind of customer buys these cameras. You

figure it out.<br>

<br>

If there is anything I hate its grouped features. You set one and

as a consequence you get these also, like it or not. Im not

talking about the picture modes here. Again assumptions are made

about the person using the camera.<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

Everything low end customers want on a camera is not necessarily

good for them but they dont know what they give up so they

buy the list of features that looks like the camera can do what

it cant. Look at the brochure for the N75. Youd think

it can do everything the F5 can if you believe this stuff.<br>

<br>

<a

href="http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/filmcamera/slr/2000-2004/f75/index.htm"

target="_new"><u>http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/filmcamera/slr/2000-2004/f75/index.htm</u></a>

<br>

<br>

These are cut & pasted directly from the N75 brochure with my

comments following.<br>

<br>

<em><strong>Viewfinder</strong></em><em> Fixed-eyelevel penta-Dach-mirror

type, built-in diopter adjustment (1.5 to +0.8m1)<br>

</em><br>

Dim, low contrast, uncoated optics with inadequate diopter

correction. The penta-Dach-mirror or mirror type pentaprism

replacement is indicative of a cheap snapshooter's camera.<br>

<br>

<em><strong>Viewfinder frame coverage</strong></em><em> Approx.

89%<br>

</em><br>

Worse than I thought.<br>

<br>

<em><strong>Finder magnification</strong></em><em> Approx. 0.68-0.60x

with 50mm lens set to infinity (at 1.5 to +0.8m1)<br>

</em><br>

Average finder magnification: 0.64x. This is lower than any other

Nikon SLR I seen. No I have not looked at the N65 or N55.<br>

<br>

<em><strong>Autofocus</strong></em><em> TTL phase detection,

Nikon Multi-CAM900 autofocus module with AF-Assist Illuminator (approx.

0.5m-3m/1.6-9.8 ft.); Detection range: EV 1 to EV 19 (ISO

100, at normal temperature)<br>

</em><br>

Notice the "AF-Assist Illuminator." This is a dead

giveaway that the Multi-CAM900 AF module is lame. The AF-Assist

Illuminator is most annoying to one's subjects and should be

disabled.<br>

<br>

The Nikon F75 AF system features five AF sensors, covering a wide

area horizontally and vertically. In addition, the F75 has three

Dynamic AF modes for maintaining focus automatically as the

subject moves from a focus area youve selected to another.<br>

<br>

Unfortunately this Multi-CAM900 AF module in both the N75 and N80

and it does not deliver the promise just above.<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

<em>"N80 has a film scratch problem and moreover for

lens mounting its not having any metal cap which will be damaging

with freq use... in N75 it has metal cap and looks good build..but

slow shutter speed.." --Nathan G<br>

</em><br>

Im guessing here but I think you are referring to the top

and bottom cover of the camera. If so they are both plastic. The

N75 is just painted. As to the film scratching Im not seen

it. I have only a little experience with the N80. I bought one

for my mom as she can no longer deal with her Nikon FE2. I shot a

couple of rolls and didnt see any problems. I think this is

a long corrected problem and I would not worry about it.<br>

<br>

And here is the N80/F80...<br>

<br>

<a

href="http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/filmcamera/slr/2000-2004/f80/index.htm"

target="_new"><u>http://nikonimaging.com/global/products/filmcamera/slr/2000-2004/f80/index.htm</u></a>

<br>

<br>

---<br>

<br>

Here is my advice. For a new AF SLR I recommend nothing less than

an F100. If this is too expensive Id buy a classic, non-collectable,

manual focus Nikon SLR like a Nikkormat FTn, Nikon EL2, FM, FE,

etc. rather than what I now call an imitation AF SLR that offers

the promise of auto focus but scarcely delivers.<br>

<br>

Galen Rowell had kind words for the N80 and used as he did where

light weight was very important combined with the skill of a very

well seasoned photographer the results speak for themselves. The

better the photographer the more they can make a lessor camera

yield.<br>

<br>

Here is a link to Galens camera bag...<br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.mountainlight.com/rowell/gr_camera_bag.html"

target="_new"><u>http://www.mountainlight.com/rowell/gr_camera_bag.html</u></a>

<br>

<br>

If you must have a new AF SLR the N80 is the absolute minimum Id

buy. Id also skip the slow, consumer zoom and buy an AF 50/1.8D

lens. The slow zoom forces the use of flash and high speed film.

Id much rather have a 35/2.0, 50/1.8 and 85/1.8 and Id

wait and save for the better optics. If you bought a Nikon FM, FE

you have a selection of very favorably prices, fine optics

including the very economical IC or pre-AI multi-coated Nikkors.<br>

<br>

Sorry about the rambling and N75 owners Im sorry if Ive

offended you.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.<br>

<br>

Postscript: Ive got to give up trying to talk people out of

low end SLR(s). They are very likely the best selling segment of

film SLR cameras. Its an exercise in futility.<br>

<br>

Some will notice that Ive gotten harder on the N80. Thats

right. I understand why Galen Rowell used the camera. I can see

this very fit man running around at altitudes above 13,000 feet.

(3,960m), altitudes where Id walk and take my very good

time. One summer I went backpacking 11 weekends in a row. Even

then I would not presume to keep up with someone like Galen.<br>

<br>

Sorry about the proofreading.

[chris haake]

"'For 99.99% of real-world shooting situations, DX reading and exposure compensation are just fine.' --Chris Haake

 

Not if you understand ISO film speeds, test condition and proper exposure of negative film."--David Hartman

 

Basically, it sounds to me like we need to get to know a film and its exposure characteristics and make compensations for that in accordance with our own tastes. Truer words couldn't be spoken. Now, is there something I'm missing, or is that not what exposure compensation is? You know, David, there are many of us who are taking fine photographs with our humble low-end cameras. I wish I had a film scanner so I could post examples on the net to show you what I'm talking about.

 

And not everyone's eyes are as bad as yours must be. I manually focus even with slow lenses just fine with my N75, and I never miss. Yes, I've used the F100, and I love the big, bright viewfinder, as well as the tank-like construction and full set of features. If I had the cash to burn and didn't have a family to consider (or if I were stupidly selfish), I'd grab one for myself. But such is not the case.

 

You certainly don't have to like the N75, but to say that no one should have and enjoy one is rediculous. Please try to be just a little more objective in the future. Remember: new shooters don't always know that these feature differences MAY NOT be worth the difference in price to them.

[david_h._hartman]

<em>"Basically, it sounds to me like we need to get to

know a film and its exposure characteristics and make

compensations for that in accordance with our own tastes."

--Chris Haake<br>

</em><br>

This is absolutely NOT a matter of taste. The dynamic rage of the

typical photographic subject exceeds ANSI/ISO test perimeters.

The assumed dynamic range is unnaturally short. ISO test are done

in a laboratory and are divorced from real world conditions. A

camera and a lens are not used. Exposure compensation is some

different. Exposure compensation is something different from film

speed and is used for personal taste and or to over come known

limitation in a metering system. Ignorance here is common. Most

today think that the meter in their camera is designed to give an

average exposure of 18% gray. For center-weighted and spotmeters

the value 12.5%. There is no ISO standard so the ANSI standard is

used by default. Matrix metering is something different and based

on a database and algorithms or fuzzy logic or whatever.<br>

<br>

C-41 is normally only pushed by 1 stop or 2 but B&W films are

processed in a variety of developers and with different agitation

so film speed is determined by test and a densitometer or by

using a low film speed number until the shadow area has the

required density. In the old days when Kodak placed a film

instruction sheet in every film box you could read these simple

instructions. If your negatives are too thin use a lower film

speed. If your negatives are too dense use a higher film speed.

This goes for color as well as B&W.<br>

<br>

<em>"Correct exposure is one of the most important factors

in achieving maximum photographic quality. Knowing the speed of

the film is the starting point for finding correct exposure. The

listed film speeds and exposure indexes giving in the Data Sheets

are the starting point for finding a film speed for your

conditions." --Eastman Kodak Pub. F-5.<br>

</em><br>

This just said that the DX code gives a starting point only. Some

camera may take advantage of other information in the DX code,

YMMV. If you use exposure compensation in place of the film speed

for your conditions your reducing your opportunity to use

exposure compensation for its intended purpose. You are

also increasing you chance of making mistakes buy confusing what

part of the "exposure compensation" is to correct film

speed and what part is for personal taste or to correct the

inadequacies of the metering system, e.g. a snowshoe hare in a

drift of snow.<br>

<br>

ISO film speeds are a starting point, a point of departure and a

standardized way of comparing various film and nothing more. <br>

<br>

<em>"And not everyone's eyes are as bad as yours must be."

--Chris Haake<br>

</em><br>

I have 20/15 vision corrected. Under moderately good light I can

see the rings created by the shadows of the Fresnel lens in all

of my cameras as well as all the other markings in the finder. <br>

<br>

<em>"I manually focus even with slow lenses just fine with

my N75, and I never miss." --Chris Haake<br>

</em><br>

Great! Now try this with fast prime lenses shot wide open in low

light were DOF is measured in centimeters.<br>

<br>

<em>"You certainly don't have to like the N75, but to say

that no one should have and enjoy one is rediculous. Please try

to be just a little more objective in the future." --Chris

Haake<br>

</em><br>

People have money for what they chose. My father never felt he

had the money for a decent camera so my sister and I have few

descent photos of our early childhood. The few quality photos I

have of myself as a child were take by a neighbor who was a

science teacher and a very good photographer who shoot Leica.<br>

<br>

What is truly ridiculous is people buying the N75 when for not

much more they could buy an N80. The N80 is not a great camera

but at least it has a full SLRs set of standard controls.<br>

<br>

Rearrange you spending. If you go to a fast food joint skip the

soda for $1.50 to 1.95 and save that towards a quality camera for

your family. Take tepid or cold showers if your family is

important. Youll be healthier for doing it. Forgive me if

you are already taking cold showers and eating brown rice and

pinto beans. Most people who say they cant afford a better

camera can if they save a few dollars here and there each week.

If you can save just $1.00 per day thats a new N80 in one

year or a new F100 in two and one half. I put it to you: is your

family worth an F100?<br>

<br>

<em>"Remember: new shooters don't always know that these

feature differences MAY NOT be worth the difference in price to

them." --Chris Haake<br>

</em><br>

The irony of this is the cameras sold to beginners are the most

difficult cameras to use if one want any real control. Automation

blinds the beginner to the principles of photography and the low

end cameras have such poor auto focus they do not deliver on the

promise. DOF and fast film is needed to cover for the poor AF

performance. The cheap cameras are designed for point and shoot

simplicity, "say cheese." The more skilled and season a

photographer the more they can make these camera yield but they

are far from ideal for a beginner or a serious photographer.<br>

<br>

Photography is compilation of very simple tasks that all need to

executed correctly at one unique moment in time. Most people lack

the motivation to learn to pull it off even though it is not that

difficult. Camera manufactures pander to unskilled photographers

insecurities and reap the profits.<br>

<br>

<em>"The snapshooter is satisfied with anything the camera

gives; the professional only with what he or she can make it

yield. In between stands the student who thinks he is "supposed"

to want something and wonders what." --White, Zakia, Lorenz<br>

</em><br>

Im challenging people to buy a better camera and to expect

more of themselves and produce more for their families.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[chris haake]

First off, David, do NOT assume to rearrange MY financial priorities for me or for anyone else. I've heard your sob story about your father before, and I don't see what that has to do with my life or anyone else's. Second, you are making a technical mountain out of a molehill. You speak of laboratory and real-world, and yet in real world useage exposure compensation and ISO settings behave EXACTLY in the same fashion, regardless of the theory behind them. Third, the N80 is roughly twice the price of the N75 and, in my opinion, is NOT twice the camera. Fourth, lower-end SLR's are by and large not more difficult to use than an F100; in fact, the N75 is, ergonomically, one of the best-designed cameras at this level (and I'm far from the only person to put that in writing).

 

In your posts, I see lots of theory, but I repeat my previous statement: these cameras can produce fabulous pictures. Next thing, you'll be telling my I'm actually *not* happy with my N75, that I was just tricked by a salesman into thinking I am. Get off your high horse before you fall and hurt yourself.

[chris haake]

I forgot to ask you: what on earth can an F100 capture of my family that my N75 can't? Give me something concrete, not an etherial diatribe meant to tug at my heartstrings. Telling a newcomer that they'll miss that shot of little Joey because they didn't have 5 frames per second and a metal alloy body is a load of garbage. Just how fast did you move when you were a kid? In the past year alone, I've shot (I'm guessing) twenty rolls of JUST my own family, and of the very few frames that didn't come out well, not one can I blame on my camera.

 

And by the way, I eat a more balanced and healthier diet than just about anyone I know; I shop carefully and am frugal; I bake my own bread and make my own broths; and I'm usually too cheap to go out to eat. Don't pretend you know me so well. Your condescention is unwarranted.

[david_h._hartman]

Chris,<br>

<br>

I give honest advice based on a 14 year photo processing business.

I didnt make presumptions about you but gave suggestions

that work for me for saving money. Yes, I've used them all. Hell,

I wore cardboard in my shoes because of the holes while saving

money for my first SLR back in 1970. I do not and never pretended

to know you. I'm sorry, I do not think this is about cameras or

photography anymore so I cannot continue.<br>

<br>

Regards,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.<br>

<br>

PS: If you want more information about ISO film testing

deficiencies, ANSI standard developer and the like try e-mailing

David Vestals if he is still around. He was a columnist for

Darkroom Magazine. The information about light meters came from

Bob Shell and a professional forum. Bob Shell, may have written a

book on photographic myths. The myth of 18% gray calibration of

cameras and light meters is or will be apart of the book. These

people are very reliable sources for this type of information and

their information measures up with other reliable sources.

[ShunCheung]

Chris, back then I frequently used Kodachrome 64 on my F4. Only that one roll had a DX problem as far as I could tell, so there was nothing to fix. After that incident, I simply stopped using DX on the F4, which has no LCD display to confirm the film speed. The only way to find out the detected DX film speed is through an attached (SB-24) Nikon flash.

 

Nowadays I don't use film much any more. But when I was using my F5 and F100, I had a habit to verify DX film speed on the camera LCD.

 

To me, no manual film speed overrise is a fatal flaw on the N75. It makes it very inconvenient to push film by a stop or two. Yes you can use the exposure compensation, but if you want to push by two stops and then add compensation, your range for compensation would be limited.

[ecarter]

Nathan - bet you didn't know what you were unleashing on the forum with a simple question, did you? :-)

 

I won't add to it anymore except to give the advice that I give everyone who's looking for cameras. Get yerself to a camera shop that has demos of both and get them into your hands, get a feel for the way they both work and which one you're most comfortable using.

 

My own take on DX is that DX override is something I like to have - mostly 'cause I have been known to push film seriously in order to catch a shot, and I mostly shoot B/W for film and do my own developing and printing. For a lot of people DX override isn't so important. Exposure compensation isn't a replacement for being able to set your own DX, but it's useful in its own right and can help. Nothing beats being aware of what your camera is doing though.

[david_rivera2]

If you can afford it the F100, if not the N80. Anything less than the N80 lacks too many useful features.

 

Of course you could make do with just about any SLR once you have a grasp of the main concepts of photography. I got by with an N50 while I was on vacation in Mexico City over a year ago. But it does make you work hard for your pictures.

 

So skip the N75 and go straight to the N80 or F100.<div></div>

[n.a.t.h.a.n]

Friends,

Thanks a lot for ur inputs and advices..!

[work-page]

Despite vehement statements to the contrary, the N75 and F80 are very close in specs. Major differences are the DX override in the F80, and the way that exposure modes and metering patterns are coupled in the F75. But with the same lens on, they both yield identical image quality.

 

One person stated that he'd owned both the F75 and the F80 and found the F80 superior. I went the other way. I've owned both and am now a satisfied user of an F75.

 

The one thing that I value most in the F75 is the user interface. It shields me from a number of errors that I frequently made when I used the F80.

 

When I take pictures, I'm focussed on the picture, not on the camera. The F80 always managed to be in the wrong metering/autofocus/custom mode. It drove me mad. I find the F75 more easy to manage. I take better pictures with it. Not because it's better, but because it's better suited for me.

[mskovacs]

The interface to the N80 is superior enough to tip the scales. I think you should try both cameras side by side and be sure to try and operate the manual exposure controls and metering patterns. I think you'll see what I mean very quickly.